Semi-OT Ping: Tom Keats

In this post:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/a3060aa31866a865
you claimed that I was at fault for following too close.

Evidently, the cyclist in this article was following too close according
to your reasoning:
http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=3923495

On 2008-07-08, Arif Khokar wrote:
In this post:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/a3060aa31866a865
you claimed that I was at fault for following too close.

Evidently, the cyclist in this article was following too close according
to your reasoning:
http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=3923495

Wow, they are actually charging him with assault with a deadly weapon.
Given how often outright intentional attacks on bicyclists are
considered 'accidents' or at most reckless driving I thought that charge
was reserved for when people actually used their car as a weapon against
cops or when someone who was trying to get away from the cops drove
close to them with no intention of harming them.

One thing I've learned about riding in traffic is that the first
reaction has to be move laterally rather than brake. This is why I keep
a space to my right. If an offending vehicle does this there will be
space on the right or if they swoop all the way over they make space on
the left. There is just no out braking most cars with typical bicycle
brakes and tires.

I've had people pull this sort of move on me out of their own stupidity
and/or belief they have priority on the roads to people who've done it
out of malice.

On 2008-07-09, Scott in SoCal wrote:
In message , Brent P
wrote:

On 2008-07-08, Arif Khokar wrote:

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=3923495

Wow, they are actually charging him with assault with a deadly weapon.

I've had people pull this sort of move on me out of their own stupidity
and/or belief they have priority on the roads to people who've done it
out of malice.

There's GOT to be more to the story than what has been reported in
that artticle.

I doubt there is. I had a guy brush pass me and then when I made a 'why
did you do that for' gesture he nailed the brakes. I stopped behind him.
He started again, nailed the brakes. I doged right and used the trunk
lid to keep me from falling. I squared myself behind him and he BACKED
UP into me.

It doesn't take much at all for these irrational arseholes to go into a
rage like that.

I don't care how much you hate pedalcyclists, you're not going to just
pick out two of them completely at random, SACRIFICE YOUR LUXURY CAR,
and risk going to jail - er, I mean, lockup - just for fun.

The guy who backed into me was driving an audi. They don't care about
their car, they'll just get it fixed.

Whatever these pedalcyclists did to provoke this guy, it must have
been really spectacular.

They were on the road and probably made the guy ease up on the throttle
for 3 seconds. Seriously, that's all it takes. Maybe one of them
returned a one finger salute.

Scott, I've had people going the opposite direction yell at me. I've had
people going the opposite direction cross the center line and aim their
motor vehicle at me. I've had people on four lane roads change lanes
from the left to the right to try to force me off the road when if they
did NOTHING they would have passed by like I wasn't even there. Then
there's the incident I've posted before where I out-accelerated the car
next to me so the driver behind me changes lanes to pass me and the
passenger throws a bottle at me.... to quote kenji... the f*ck? I out
accelerated the neon driver in the left lane... what more could they
want?

Numerous drivers seem to think it's their calling to rid the road of
bicyclists and they do this sort of **** to scare us off the road. I
always add miles to my ride if I encounter these sort of people because
I believe their objective is to get me off the road.

On 2008-07-09, Scott in SoCal wrote:
In message , Brent P
wrote:

Scott, I've had people going the opposite direction yell at me. I've had
people going the opposite direction cross the center line and aim their
motor vehicle at me. I've had people on four lane roads change lanes
from the left to the right to try to force me off the road when if they
did NOTHING they would have passed by like I wasn't even there. Then
there's the incident I've posted before where I out-accelerated the car
next to me so the driver behind me changes lanes to pass me and the
passenger throws a bottle at me.... to quote kenji... the f*ck? I out
accelerated the neon driver in the left lane... what more could they
want?

Numerous drivers seem to think it's their calling to rid the road of
bicyclists and they do this sort of **** to scare us off the road.

Granted I don't cycle as many miles as you, but I've never seen
behavior like this. Not even once. The worst that's ever happened is
someone honked - just a quick toot, possibly to let me know he was
about to pass me on the right using the dedicated right turn lane. The
sudden loud noise from behind me was startling. That's the worst
experience I've had while pedalcycling.

lucky you. when a motorist honks at me he follows it up with a rude
brush pass even if he's driving a giant gravel truck.

In article ,
Scott in SoCal wrote:
In message , Brent P
wrote:

On 2008-07-08, Arif Khokar wrote:

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=3923495

Wow, they are actually charging him with assault with a deadly weapon.

I've had people pull this sort of move on me out of their own stupidity
and/or belief they have priority on the roads to people who've done it
out of malice.

There's GOT to be more to the story than what has been reported in
that artticle.

I don't care how much you hate pedalcyclists, you're not going to just
pick out two of them completely at random, SACRIFICE YOUR LUXURY CAR,
and risk going to jail - er, I mean, lockup - just for fun.

Unless you're a ****ing nutcase. Or, more charitably, maybe he'd just
pulled a double shift at the emergency room and was only temporarily a
****ing nutcase.

Whatever these pedalcyclists did to provoke this guy, it must have
been really spectacular.

Yeah, Scott, blame the victim given no evidence whatesoever pointing
towards that.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

People that drive motorcars are just, well the sort that behave as you
have described. Further, it seems that the more money they spent to
purchase their auto the more likely they are to be murderous
assholes. Your Neon driver maybe the outlier.

On Jul 8, 10:53 pm, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-07-09, Scott in SoCal wrote:

In message , Brent P
wrote:

On 2008-07-08, Arif Khokar wrote:

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&...

Wow, they are actually charging him with assault with a deadly weapon.

I've had people pull this sort of move on me out of their own stupidity
and/or belief they have priority on the roads to people who've done it
out of malice.
There's GOT to be more to the story than what has been reported in
that artticle.

I doubt there is. I had a guy brush pass me and then when I made a 'why
did you do that for' gesture he nailed the brakes. I stopped behind him.
He started again, nailed the brakes. I doged right and used the trunk
lid to keep me from falling. I squared myself behind him and he BACKED
UP into me.

It doesn't take much at all for these irrational arseholes to go into a
rage like that.

I don't care how much you hate pedalcyclists, you're not going to just
pick out two of them completely at random, SACRIFICE YOUR LUXURY CAR,
and risk going to jail - er, I mean, lockup - just for fun.

The guy who backed into me was driving an audi. They don't care about
their car, they'll just get it fixed.

Whatever these pedalcyclists did to provoke this guy, it must have
been really spectacular.

They were on the road and probably made the guy ease up on the throttle
for 3 seconds. Seriously, that's all it takes. Maybe one of them
returned a one finger salute.

Scott, I've had people going the opposite direction yell at me. I've had
people going the opposite direction cross the center line and aim their
motor vehicle at me. I've had people on four lane roads change lanes
from the left to the right to try to force me off the road when if they
did NOTHING they would have passed by like I wasn't even there. Then
there's the incident I've posted before where I out-accelerated the car
next to me so the driver behind me changes lanes to pass me and the
passenger throws a bottle at me.... to quote kenji... the f*ck? I out
accelerated the neon driver in the left lane... what more could they
want?

Numerous drivers seem to think it's their calling to rid the road of
bicyclists and they do this sort of **** to scare us off the road. I
always add miles to my ride if I encounter these sort of people because
I believe their objective is to get me off the road.

Aw, geez, not this **** again. People driving cars and people riding
bikes are ALL, for the most part, completely stupid. However, around
here, the cyclists are even dumber than the drivers. But we're
talking about degrees of stupidity here. If you encounter someone on
a DC-area road, the safest assumption is that they are completely
stupid and shouldn't be allowed outdoors without supervision.

The sad thing is, I don't feel that I am exaggerating in the
slightest.

I'm feeling especially uncharitable towards cyclists since an idiot
roadie (fully kitted) blew a stop sign so close to me that I had to
panic stop yesterday. This is why cyclists may detect a little bit of
animosity on the part of motorists - it's because they're ****ING
STUPID.

I'm especially ****ed because I enjoy riding, and don't like the fact
that the idiots on bikes around here are doing their best to plant
firmly in the minds of all around them "person on bike is an arrogant
and/or suicidal prick who ignores all the rules of the road."

Anyone who makes these kinds of sweeping generalizations about
motorists while by omission suggesting that the average cyclist isn't
at least as bad either doesn't actually have any cyclists to observe
in his area or else is likely one of those idiot suicyclists who give
riders a bad name himself, because it's simply impossible to observe
the behavior of the typical cyclist without thinking "that asshole's
gonna die someday and it's going to be his own fault." Yes, Dennis,
I'm talking about you. I defy you to spend ONE DAY in my neighborhood
and not see MULTIPLE examples of incredibly illegal and suicidal
riding, and not by POBs either, I'm talking about fully kitted road
weenies.

It's not motorists that make me afraid to ride. (I use "afraid"
loosely - I still do it when I can; I just realize that it's more
dangerous than it needs to be) it's the behavior of 99.44% of cyclists
that make motorists antagonistic towards cyclists in general.

nate

On Jul 9, 6:34 pm, DennisTheBald wrote:
People that drive motorcars are just, well the sort that behave as you
have described. Further, it seems that the more money they spent to
purchase their auto the more likely they are to be murderous
assholes. Your Neon driver maybe the outlier.

On Jul 8, 10:53 pm, Brent P
wrote:

On 2008-07-09, Scott in SoCal wrote:

In message , Brent P
wrote:

On 2008-07-08, Arif Khokar wrote:

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&...

Wow, they are actually charging him with assault with a deadly weapon.

I've had people pull this sort of move on me out of their own stupidity
and/or belief they have priority on the roads to people who've done it
out of malice.
There's GOT to be more to the story than what has been reported in
that artticle.

I doubt there is. I had a guy brush pass me and then when I made a 'why
did you do that for' gesture he nailed the brakes. I stopped behind him.
He started again, nailed the brakes. I doged right and used the trunk
lid to keep me from falling. I squared myself behind him and he BACKED
UP into me.

It doesn't take much at all for these irrational arseholes to go into a
rage like that.

I don't care how much you hate pedalcyclists, you're not going to just
pick out two of them completely at random, SACRIFICE YOUR LUXURY CAR,
and risk going to jail - er, I mean, lockup - just for fun.

The guy who backed into me was driving an audi. They don't care about
their car, they'll just get it fixed.

Whatever these pedalcyclists did to provoke this guy, it must have
been really spectacular.

They were on the road and probably made the guy ease up on the throttle
for 3 seconds. Seriously, that's all it takes. Maybe one of them
returned a one finger salute.

Scott, I've had people going the opposite direction yell at me. I've had
people going the opposite direction cross the center line and aim their
motor vehicle at me. I've had people on four lane roads change lanes
from the left to the right to try to force me off the road when if they
did NOTHING they would have passed by like I wasn't even there. Then
there's the incident I've posted before where I out-accelerated the car
next to me so the driver behind me changes lanes to pass me and the
passenger throws a bottle at me.... to quote kenji... the f*ck? I out
accelerated the neon driver in the left lane... what more could they
want?

Numerous drivers seem to think it's their calling to rid the road of
bicyclists and they do this sort of **** to scare us off the road. I
always add miles to my ride if I encounter these sort of people because
I believe their objective is to get me off the road.

On 2008-07-10, Scott in SoCal wrote:

It's hard to imagine a ****ing nutcase could go 58 years (or whatever
age the article said this guy is) without getting in many, MANY
incidents like this. If this guy was into random acts of violence
against pedalcyclists, why would he still have a license? Why wouldn't
the article mention his prior history?

That's about how old the audi driver that backed into me was. Like I
said, I believe I had a prior encounter with him. It's all about until
they cross the line and actually do something that causes someone to
report it or someone to get hurt.

Arif Khokar wrote:
In this post:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/a3060aa31866a865
you claimed that I was at fault for following too close.

Evidently, the cyclist in this article was following too close according
to your reasoning:
http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=3923495

This guy should lose both licenses; driving AND medical. Furthermore, he
should be forced to commute to his new job by bicycle.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article ,
N8N wrote:
gonna die someday and it's going to be his own fault." Yes, Dennis,
I'm talking about you. I defy you to spend ONE DAY in my neighborhood
and not see MULTIPLE examples of incredibly illegal and suicidal
riding, and not by POBs either, I'm talking about fully kitted road
weenies.

It's not motorists that make me afraid to ride. (I use "afraid"
loosely - I still do it when I can; I just realize that it's more
dangerous than it needs to be) it's the behavior of 99.44% of cyclists
that make motorists antagonistic towards cyclists in general.

Cyclists being assholes doesn't help, but there's plenty of unprovoked
ordinary motorist assininity (double-s intentional). Like the idiots
yelling stuff at me when they're on the other side of the road. Or
the guy in the van who went through great measures to pass me and jam
himself in the space between myself and the VW bug in front of me --
which I was gaining on, because the bug driver was an idiot too. I
did draft the van guy for another half mile, though, so it wasn't all
bad.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.