Question on multi-use trails

"voodoo" wrote in message
. ..

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm betting
not ...

Yes. The local trail system in Baton Rouge is run by the public park
system,
and is bike only, and that point was made quite clear to horse people.
Nothing more unnerving than to round a blind corner of single track, and
damn near run into a 2,000 lb horse. There was also the massive mounds
poop
on the trail.

Monique asked about "bike-only" trails. Not allowing horses doesn't
necessarily equal "bike-only".

Bill "in a perfect world it would, but..." S.

wrote:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...

snip


Anyway, the last time I was there, a lady from park services was
surveying bikers about their interests and needs. I thought this was
pretty cool. We got into a discussion about the Betasso policy, which
is that bikes are not allowed on the trail Weds and Sat, and in addition
to this, bikes are only allowed to go one direction on the loop (the
direction is reversed every month or so).

big snip


PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm betting
not ...


Thank you for writing this. I am actually going to forward this to a
local state park. It has a very popular multi use trail that is
becoming clogged more and more by the day with walkers, joggers,
bikers, in line skaters, and the newest craze are these canopy bikes
for three people, which are very wide, and seem to be a bit hard to
control properly and these damn three wheel chopper tricycles.

I'm a bit confused. I'm not sure my email stands as ringing endorsement
of anything ... would you forward it as a suggestion to try restricting
bikes to certain days? To have bike-only trails? Or ... ?

Not trying to be snide; just curious.

-- monique

wrote:

Thank you for writing this. I am actually going to forward this to a
local state park. It has a very popular multi use trail that is
becoming clogged more and more by the day with walkers, joggers,
bikers, in line skaters,

Hmm, inline skaters are the one group that I've never met on the trails.
Maybe that's because I don't ride on pavements.

Of course, when I've come in to contact with them at skateparks, they
tend to end up in hospital

"Sorni" wrote in message
...
"voodoo" wrote in message
. ..

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm
betting
not ...

Yes. The local trail system in Baton Rouge is run by the public park
system,
and is bike only, and that point was made quite clear to horse people.
Nothing more unnerving than to round a blind corner of single track, and
damn near run into a 2,000 lb horse. There was also the massive mounds
poop
on the trail.

Monique asked about "bike-only" trails. Not allowing horses doesn't
necessarily equal "bike-only".

It's bike only. Two trails that connect. Hooper, and Comite mountain bike
trails. This is a Parish (County for the other 49 states) park system, not a
National forest type. If you want to track race, thats at Perkins Road Park,
but I think that's bike and hike.....not sure.

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
So, as some of you might recall, I'm fairly new to mountain biking.
Things have been pretty busy, so my only rides this month have been
three loops around Betasso, a fairly moderate 3.5 mile loop that
nevertheless kicks my butt =)

Anyway, the last time I was there, a lady from park services was
surveying bikers about their interests and needs. I thought this was
pretty cool. We got into a discussion about the Betasso policy, which
is that bikes are not allowed on the trail Weds and Sat, and in addition
to this, bikes are only allowed to go one direction on the loop (the
direction is reversed every month or so).

This policy seems all right to me -- it means that if hikers really hate
dealing with bikes, they don't have to, and it means that hikers only
have to keep an eye out in one direction for bikes. It seems to me that
it should reduce trail friction, which must be good for everyone ...

To my surprise, the park services lady said that a lot of bikers were
quite upset about these policies. It seemed to me that it's in the
bikers' own self-interest to be able to avoid antagonistic hikers (as
well as avoiding antagonizing hikers). On the other hand, she pointed
out that many of these bikers had been doing their thing since before
there were any restrictions at all ... so maybe they perceive a gradual
erosion of rights that will lead inexorably to a total lack of bike
trails in the entire region. I can certainly see where that would
become a real fear, and maybe I'm naive not to feel the pressure.

So, what do you folks think about policies that restrict bikes to
certain days, etc? In this particular case, bikers can use the trail 5
days a week, and one of those days is on the weekend.

Two anecdotes that may be relevant:

1) The first day that I rode this trail, my fiance and I slowly
approached a gaggle of variously-aged children and their chaparones. An
older woman thanked us profusely for going so slowly, which makes me
wonder if she's more often been treated to bikers plowing right through
the group.

2) While my parents were visiting, I took them for a hike around this
same trail. We chose the direction counter to the bike direction
specifically so that we wouldn't have bikes roaring up on us from
behind. We encountered no hikers and many bikers, most of whom were
courteous and friendly, but there was one pair that were going the wrong
direction and zooming right up on us in precisely the fashion we'd tried
to avoid. As the guy in the lead zipped past, I called out, "Hey,
aren't you going the wrong way?", to which he responded completely
unapologetically, "They change it every couple of weeks -- I can't keep
it straight." His companion at least had the courtesy to look a little
shame-faced. Mind you, the direction is posted quite prominently at the
trail head, and there's a big "WRONG WAY BIKERS" sign a couple of
hundred yards into the trail, just in case you hadn't noticed the first
one. There is an alternate route into the trail, but even if they had
used it, I believe they would still have ridden past both signs. This
kind of behavior made me wish that there were such a thing as bike
license plates ...

These two anecdotes suggest to me that the bike-free days aren't a bad
idea at all ... though, if the bikers in the second example aren't
willing to follow instructions on trail direction, they're probably not
terribly likely to follow other policies, either.

-- monique

PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm betting
not ...


At a Pocahontas State Park, where I ride, there is a mountain bike only
singletrack trail that is about 10 miles long. The park management wanted
it this way to reduce conflict. Also it is a one way only trail. We
discussed alternating direction on different days but decided that would
lead to too much confusion (after all we're mountain bikers right? ;^) )
Occaisionally I encounter hikers and trail runners who prefer our trails to
the boring forest roads and paths. I usually tell them this a bike only
trail so they don't get ****ed when they get buzzed by a biker but also
suggest they run/walk in the opposite direction as the bikes so they can see
us coming. There have been no problems I know of so far.

Mike

RE/

Horses will always be a problem; they're huge and skittish, and they
destroy trails.

In Valley Forge, where I do a lot of riding, it looks ike horses tear up the
paths and bikers pack it down again...
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...
wrote:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...

snip


Anyway, the last time I was there, a lady from park services was
surveying bikers about their interests and needs. I thought this was
pretty cool. We got into a discussion about the Betasso policy, which
is that bikes are not allowed on the trail Weds and Sat, and in addition
to this, bikes are only allowed to go one direction on the loop (the
direction is reversed every month or so).

big snip


PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm betting
not ...


Thank you for writing this. I am actually going to forward this to a
local state park. It has a very popular multi use trail that is
becoming clogged more and more by the day with walkers, joggers,
bikers, in line skaters, and the newest craze are these canopy bikes
for three people, which are very wide, and seem to be a bit hard to
control properly and these damn three wheel chopper tricycles.

I'm a bit confused. I'm not sure my email stands as ringing endorsement
of anything ... would you forward it as a suggestion to try restricting
bikes to certain days? To have bike-only trails? Or ... ?

Not trying to be snide; just curious.

-- monique


I forwarded it on without your email address. I sent it because I
liked the idea of how your park seems to manage all the users, which
is what my area park needs to do better. My area park trail is 14.5
miles long, and is governed only by a sing every 3 miles. It is two
lanes throughout 6 miles of it, and th rest is all one way, which
people disregard routinely.

JD wrote:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...

So, as some of you might recall, I'm fairly new to mountain biking.
Things have been pretty busy, so my only rides this month have been
three loops around Betasso, a fairly moderate 3.5 mile loop that
nevertheless kicks my butt =)


Boulder is the joke of mountain biking cities. Even though IMBA is
headquartered there, the hikers managed to kick mountain bikers off of
almost everything.

I lived in Boulder in '84 when I started mountain biking. Most trails
were already closed to bikes, but we poached them with impunity until I
moved away 1 1/2 years later (No, I haven't for many years). Very very
different now. I suspect if a wheel casts a shadow across a trail,
you'll do time. Boulder is so seriously f~cked up these days.
(Apologies to those there who didn't make it that way)

PS -- Is there any such thing anywhere as bike-only trails? I'm betting
not ...

Come to Salida. It just works out that way!
On second thought, never mind.

Cheers,
Shawn

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

So, what do you folks think about policies that restrict bikes to
certain days, etc? In this particular case, bikers can use the trail 5
days a week, and one of those days is on the weekend.

I really think it sucks. Cyclist and pedestrians should have no problem
co-existing. One of my favorite rides is about four hours from here. There
are two longer trails and two shorter trails. The longer ones are only open
every other day so that horseback riders can use them on the alternating
days. And I've never seen any evidence of horses using the trails, ever!

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ...
So, as some of you might recall, I'm fairly new to mountain biking.
Things have been pretty busy, so my only rides this month have been
three loops around Betasso, a fairly moderate 3.5 mile loop that
nevertheless kicks my butt =)

We got into a discussion about the Betasso policy, which
is that bikes are not allowed on the trail Weds and Sat.

Here's the deal. Boulder has an enormous amount of extremely high
quality hiking trails in the mountains right around town. Hikers (of
which I am one as well, by the way) are absolutely swamped with trail
choices everywhere they look in Boulder. Exactly none of these trails
allow bikes.

As a hiking trail, Betasso is at best average for the Boulder area,
especially compared to Bear Peak, Sanitas, or any of the bazillion
trails around the Flatirons. But some hikers will stop at nothing in
their quest to shut down trails to bikes.

This is exactly what happened. Betasso is one of only four or five
trails near (but still well outside) Boulder where you can ride your
bike, and the hikers wanted to completely shut it down to bikes. Why?
Who knows. This is why JD says Boulder is a lame place for a mountain
biker (I concur).

There were complaints of user conflicts on the trail, but a subsequent
user survey failed to support this theory. Still, the hikers (and
equestrians, by the way) were organized enough to get the attention of
the Parks & Open Space beaurocrats. An advisory committee was formed,
studies were done, and the committee recommended that the "problem"
was a non-issue and that there should be no change to current policy
(that is, bikes should still be allowed). Parks & Open Space dutifully
ignored the advisory committee's recommendations, as is their way, and
implemented the asinine policy we have today: bikes are excluded two
days a week.

Here's how I feel about this. Betasso is a high-use trail. It is of
particularly high use because so few trails near Boulder are open to
bikes. Anytime you have such high numbers of users, it's going to be a
pain, whether you're on foot or riding a bike or a horse. You're
forced to stop or at least slow down very frequently to pass each
other on the trail. Hikers and equestrians complain loudly about all
this (rather than simply trying to find a less-frequented trail, I
might add), while bikers do not. Have you ever heard of an organized
group of mountain bikers lobbying to get a trail shut down to hiking
due to user conflicts? Of course not.

Anyway, the current policy blatantly discriminates against mountain
bikers (nothing new), and sets a very, very bad precedent. It pains me
deeply to see anyone hold up Betasso as an example of the way user
conflicts should be managed. The only way I could agree with this
policy is if it were changed to exclude hikers and equestrians an
equal number of days per week.

I'm typing this out straight from memory, so if anyone sees facts that
I may have misrepresented or left out, please let me know.

bock


This policy seems all right to me

Nope, it sucks. And I don't even like Betasso all that much.