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#41
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Horst link bending forces
AMuzi wrote:
A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually seen it/them - they are made in Japan, I take it? What about Ultegra [Di2], 105, Tiagra, Positron? I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't benefited from or won't even experience a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace. Except for when it fails and s/he has to acquire spare parts... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
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#42
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Horst link bending forces
On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 17:23:39 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: I think it is pretty much a fact of modern life. Try build and selling a Mercedes automobile :-) Or even labeling something as "Made in U.S.A." This brings up the question, when you say a bike is from some year, or some country, what exactly does this refer to? With a brand, it is easy, but with the actual product I mean? Perhaps, in the order of relative weight to the answer, 1. frame and fork 2. wheels 3. contact points (bar, saddle, pedals) 4. components? Design? Only if it is in any way radical or have any groundbreaking ideas or concepts. As for point (1) and the Crescent case, what if the tubes and lugs are from one place, only wielded someplace else? I'd say the material gets the upper hand in such cases. For example, they put together Nishiki bikes in Gothenburg from Japanese (or Taiwanese most likely) material. I would consider such a bike Taiwanese, Japanese, and Swedish as a very distant third, assuming it was actually put together in Gothenburg and not entirely in Taiwan or some other part of the world. A number of car makers are building automobiles in countries other in where their home office is located. Is a Honda built in the U.S. an American made auto? I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061 aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in 1935 :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#43
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Horst link bending forces
John B. wrote:
A number of car makers are building automobiles in countries other in where their home office is located. Is a Honda built in the U.S. an American made auto? If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame is put together in the US then yes, if we were to transfer this definition from bikes to cars. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#44
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Horst link bending forces
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 09:59:47 -0800, Joerg wrote:
snip I've seen injuries with fork failures (TK being a prime example) and with early Al MTB front-end failures. I saw some front-ends detach, although after big impacts that would have ejected the rider in any event. I'm not in the know with MTBs, but it seems that suspension failures would just result in a crippled bike rather than a crippled rider. It depends. If my rear shock detached the bike would bottom out. The posterior mount of that loosened twice, last time on Wednesday, but now I learned the symptoms and carry a 2nd 5mm Allen wrench in a pocket so I can check tightness once in a while without having to unpack the tool kit. Maybe the application of some thread lock may be beneficial. snip -- davethedave |
#45
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Horst link bending forces
On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 03:47:29 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: A number of car makers are building automobiles in countries other in where their home office is located. Is a Honda built in the U.S. an American made auto? If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame is put together in the US then yes, if we were to transfer this definition from bikes to cars. Actually that was sort of leading question as in quite a few countries, Indonesia and Thailand for certain, the decision of whether a vehicle was local made or not was dependent on the percent and type of parts that imported as opposed to made locally. The question local made/imported was a rather important decision as it effected taxes and duties, usually greatly, the import duty on a completely foreign made auto could be as much as 300%. -- Cheers, John B. |
#46
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Horst link bending forces
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 2:36:17 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote: A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually seen it/them - they are made in Japan, I take it? What about Ultegra [Di2], 105, Tiagra, Positron? I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't benefited from or won't even experience a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace. Except for when it fails and s/he has to acquire spare parts... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. Lou |
#47
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Horst link bending forces
On 2/5/2018 6:47 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
John B. wrote: A number of car makers are building automobiles in countries other in where their home office is located. Is a Honda built in the U.S. an American made auto? If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame is put together in the US then yes, if we were to transfer this definition from bikes to cars. The domestic content laws are so convoluted (written to benefit the former big 3) that going by the final assembly location is really the only logical way to determine country-of-origin. Is a Ford built in Mexico an American vehicle (accepting the common definition of "American" as U.S.) just because Ford's headquarters is in the U.S.? Is a Toyota built in the U.S. a Japanese vehicle? And of course Toyota has huge U.S. design centers, they are not just doing assembly here. I'm more concerned with the jobs of auto workers than the jobs of corporate execs. |
#49
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Horst link bending forces
On 06/02/2018 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 2:36:17 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: A complete bike is normally attributed to the framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi frame(Milano built with British tube & French lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura Ace is considered an Italian bicycle. Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually seen it/them - they are made in Japan, I take it? What about Ultegra [Di2], 105, Tiagra, Positron? I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't benefited from or won't even experience a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace. Except for when it fails and s/he has to acquire spare parts... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. I think Shimano filters the tech down over development cycles: https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/gear-...-groupset.html |
#50
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Horst link bending forces
On 2018-02-05 21:20, dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 09:59:47 -0800, Joerg wrote: snip I've seen injuries with fork failures (TK being a prime example) and with early Al MTB front-end failures. I saw some front-ends detach, although after big impacts that would have ejected the rider in any event. I'm not in the know with MTBs, but it seems that suspension failures would just result in a crippled bike rather than a crippled rider. It depends. If my rear shock detached the bike would bottom out. The posterior mount of that loosened twice, last time on Wednesday, but now I learned the symptoms and carry a 2nd 5mm Allen wrench in a pocket so I can check tightness once in a while without having to unpack the tool kit. Maybe the application of some thread lock may be beneficial. Loctite didn't help. This is on the side of the upper Horst link part that flexes when braking hard. It happens on steep stretches of trail. Though usually only every few hundred miles so a 5mm Allen wrench carried in a quickly accessible pocket is fine. You just have to watch for the symptoms before something down there eats itself. -- Gruesse, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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