Camera like sensors on top of traffic lights

They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?

"David Cowie" wrote in message
...
They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work

yes. however the systems used vary from area to area, and details of such
systems are often classified at least "Restricted" - not without good
reason. (there are also access codes embedded in transmitter chips etc)

This *is* a safety-critical system for the blue light services, and it is
not a good idea to attempt to **** around with it! OK *you* may have good
intentions (like not wanting to run a red light), but if info like this is
widely circulated it could be misused for various purposes, by boy racers
and other motorists wanting to get back at Ken for the C-Charge.

The cost of dealing with any hack would fall to the public purse...

or how to make them work for me ?

yep. Contact the highways department of the local authority where these are,
and point out the timing problem to them. Make sure you get a log number,
and keep chasing. Maybe contact your local cycling club, and/or maybe even
TfL or Mayor's office, CTC London etc....

Might be more effort and less "rebellious", but you won't get nicked!

Alex

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:09:24 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:

They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?

They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

Microwave detectors are replacing inductive loop detectors.

Rob.
Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Robert Woolley wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:09:24 +0100, David Cowie
wrote:


They look like cameras. Think on the side is printer FB Detection
(FireBrigade?). Are they testing to see if there are any cars at the
lights before turning red ? These lights do seem particularly short if
there are no cars and I'm on bicycle attempting to get to them before
turning amber.

Any ideas on how they work or how to make them work for me ?


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

Microwave detectors are replacing inductive loop detectors.
Lets get the baco foil out and have some fun :-)

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...
Peter Fox wrote:
Following on from David Cowie's message. . .
Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph. Complain to
the appropriate highway authority who should be able to tweak it to
cotton on to your approach..

Meanwhile, since bikes are traffic too, if it doesn't detect you it's a
failed traffic signal within the meaning of the act. This means, once
you're sure it's ignoring you and isn't set to change anyway at some
point, you can ignore it too (treat it as a give way).

I had a traffic light fail to turn green late one night (I was in my car).
I'd taken a wrong turning at a set of traffic lights into a cul-de-sac. When
I had turned round, the traffic lights that would have let me out again had
stuck on red (in my direction). After waiting about two minutes, during
which there was no traffic approaching the junction from any direction, I
thought "bugger this for a lark" and cautiously edged forward, checking for
oncoming traffic. Blow me, just after I'd cleared the junction, a police car
suddenly appeared from my right and pulled me over for ignoring a traffic
light, on the grounds that if his light was green, mine must have been red.
I suggested that he might like to check the state of the lights. At first he
didn't believe me, but I persisted. Even after he had checked and found that
I was telling the truth, he wasn't happy and examined my documents and my
car very carefully to see if there was any rule on which he could "get" me.
Sadly for him (and fortunately for me), my lights were all working, my tyres
had good tread and I'd got my licence, insurance and MOT certificate on me
as I'd just bought a new tax disc that day.

Following on from David Cowie's message. . .

Seems that might be the only way I can get the light to change ! How
about a foil vest

Bit annoying waiting at the light (for it to change) knowing that
there's no way to activate a sensor and wait for a car to approach
before it'll change.

They are _speed_ sensitive with a cut-off at about 15mph. Complain to
the appropriate highway authority who should be able to tweak it to
cotton on to your approach..

gone are the days of laying a bike down in the road over the sensor


--
PETER FOX Not the same since the pancake business flopped
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

--
Peter Lawrence

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:48:58 GMT,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction. I've had a
few hard stares from pedestrians waiting to cross who clearly think
I hadn't seen either them or the lights until the last possible
moment. 20-25mph seemed to be the trigger speed I needed to be at
in order to trip the lights and still have time to stop.
(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)


Microwave detectors tend not to be used in central London where
traffic speeds are low.

Their principal advantage over loop detectors is that they don't
suffer the problems of utitilities destroying them when carrying out
maintenance work.

Detectors can be set to be sensitive to cyclists. Close to where I
live, a jogging pedestrian in the carriageway can trigger a detector
at one lightly used of traffic signals.


Rob.

--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 06:48:58 GMT,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:30:12 +0100, Robert Woolley
wrote:


They are detectors which use microwaves to 'see traffic' and adjust
accordingly. Microwaves get reflected by moving metal objects. They
don't work well if traffic is generally very slow moving.

So why does anyone think they are useful in London?

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction. I've had a
few hard stares from pedestrians waiting to cross who clearly think
I hadn't seen either them or the lights until the last possible
moment. 20-25mph seemed to be the trigger speed I needed to be at
in order to trip the lights and still have time to stop.
(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)


Microwave detectors tend not to be used in central London where
traffic speeds are low.

Their principal advantage over loop detectors is that they don't
suffer the problems of utitilities destroying them when carrying out
maintenance work.

Detectors can be set to be sensitive to cyclists. Close to where I
live, a jogging pedestrian in the carriageway can trigger a detector
at one lightly used of traffic signals.


Rob.

--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

I regularly trigger them when out running here in Edinburgh. They detect
bikes very easily.

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:19:12 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Tim
Woodall wrote this:-

My experiments with the ones near me suggest that the sensors are
responsive to both the echo size and speed. In the car I can
get them to trigger at any speed but on the bike I can't stop pedalling
until the point I need to brake hard for the junction.

Then they are defective.

(the junction is currently being "redesigned" so it will be
interesting to see what happens in the future)

Time to ask the council what they are doing to make the lights work.
No doubt they have a cycling policy you can quote.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.