Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap

BRADENTON, Fla. -- The parents of an 8-year-old boy ticketed by police
for violating traffic rules on his bike say they won't pay the $34
citation for a child who is just half the legal driving age.
Second-grader Scott Montgomery has 30 days to pay Manatee County for
the ticket written by a Bradenton police officer Wednesday. "I'm
going to not pay this ticket, and Scott's definitely not going to pay
it," said Danielle McIntosh, the boy's mother. She added the only
money her son has is the allowance he has been saving for a
battery-operated miniature truck.

"He's an 8-year-old child. He does not understand what the right of
way is," She said. Scott was riding a bicycle in his neighborhood
when he jumped a dirt mound with five of his friends, Bradenton Police
Lt. Sam Campbell said. He crossed paths with a 2001 Nissan and the car
clipped the rear tire of Scott's 5-pound, 16-inch BMX bicycle. Scott
wasn't injured, but was cited by Officer Jeff Beckley for violating
the right of way. "I'm doing OK," said Scott, who was not wearing a
helmet during the accident. "I hit a little bit of his car, but then I
just got off my bike and ran away." McIntosh said the two people in
the Nissan claimed Scott flew up onto the hood of their car, causing
$1,000 worth of damage. Campbell said that police estimated $500 and
could not confirm whether Scott hit the hood. "His mother was
apparently pretty upset with us," Campbell said. "But in this case,
the child caused the accident by pulling out in front of the car. The
driver didn't have time to react." Campbell said officers issue
citations to many children throughout the year for not wearing helmets
or for committing traffic violations on their bicycles. Officers draft
the tickets in the child's name but usually expect the parents to pay
them. If no one is cited during an accident, insurance companies will
demand that vehicle owners pay for their damages even if they are not
at fault. It is a liability as well as a safety issue, Campbell said.

http://www.local6.com/news/2580655/detail.html


Doug

These parents should be cited for contempt of court and thrown in jail.

They are teaching their kid that nothing is ever his fault and he does
not have to bear responsibility for his actions.

He is clearly at fault for almost HITTING A CAR and getting himself killed.
Why the heck are the parents upset with the cops? They should take
away the kids bike for months for that kind of stupidity and thank
the driver obvious quick reaction that didn't lead to further injury.

The cop has all the reasons for giving this ticket. Even if the cop
wanted to let the kid off with just a warning for his stupidity,
it would have meant that the driver had to pay for his own repairs.
That is HARDLY fair. Perhaps if the parents really want the ticket
to go away, they should offer to pay for the damages to the car
instead of the ticket.

(sbirn) writes:


The cop has all the reasons for giving this ticket. Even if the cop
wanted to let the kid off with just a warning for his stupidity,
it would have meant that the driver had to pay for his own repairs.
That is HARDLY fair.

You can fill out an accident report and establish liability without
issuing a citation. Notifying the parents of an 8 year old who did
something stupid is a useful social service, and that can also be done
without a citation. Whether a traffic citation is appropriate in this
particular case is a separate issue, and one I'll avoid commenting on
due to not having read previous messages on this thread.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

I don't get our society's obsession with going after cyclists who break
traffic laws with even greater zeal then speeding drivers, which kill
thousands.

Traffic laws are about preventing death and destruction, not some kind of
social etiquette. You break them on a bike, you get maimed or killed - and
you have no legal recourse. You break them in a car and you maim and kill
others. The term self-policing comes to mind.

I feel the real problem with this is people focus on the small real penalty
(a teeny ticket) and forget about the big penalty (quadriplegia).

Failing to yield the right of way on a BMX bike is not the same as in a
Hummer. Personally I think bike tickets should be limited to the cost of
requiring a cop to jack cyclists up, tell them at a high decibel level in
front of everyone what morons they are to risk their lives, hand them a GOOD
cycling guide, and filing a warning in the system (probably about $20). The
parting shot by the cop is telling them that their record is the first place
the lawyers will look if they are in an accident. Good luck getting a
decent settlement with a bad record and jury full of drivers - knucklehead!


"sbirn" wrote in message
...

These parents should be cited for contempt of court and thrown in jail.

They are teaching their kid that nothing is ever his fault and he does
not have to bear responsibility for his actions.

He is clearly at fault for almost HITTING A CAR and getting himself
killed.
Why the heck are the parents upset with the cops? They should take
away the kids bike for months for that kind of stupidity and thank
the driver obvious quick reaction that didn't lead to further injury.

The cop has all the reasons for giving this ticket. Even if the cop
wanted to let the kid off with just a warning for his stupidity,
it would have meant that the driver had to pay for his own repairs.
That is HARDLY fair. Perhaps if the parents really want the ticket
to go away, they should offer to pay for the damages to the car
instead of the ticket.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:04:34 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
You can fill out an accident report and establish liability without
issuing a citation.

Really? Can you please present your Florida law credentials and a case
history of handling traffic claims? If not, then I will happily take the
statement of the local Florida press which said:
"If no one is cited during an accident, insurance companies will
demand that vehicle owners pay for their damages even if they
are not at fault."
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradent...al/7090233.htm

Notice...*EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT*. That seems to directly contradict
your statement, so you really need to prove that you have any basis other
than hot air for your statement.


Notifying the parents of an 8 year old who did
something stupid is a useful social service, and that can also be done
without a citation.

Because of the above issue, I disagree. However, I also fail to see
what is wrong with having concrete consequences for his stupidity - or
rather his parents' stupidity in failing to properly teach him road
safety. The article also makes clear that the ticket is issued to
the child, but the expectation is for the parents to pay. Personally,
I think that the parents are getting off easy. They were negligent
in teaching their child proper safety, they have obviously failed to
teach him proper values that he shoudl own up for his actions. A
mere $34 is peanuts for that offense.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:19:36 GMT, Robert Haston wrote:
Hummer. Personally I think bike tickets should be limited to the cost of
requiring a cop to jack cyclists up, tell them at a high decibel level in
front of everyone what morons they are to risk their lives, hand them a GOOD

Why? What if it is a mo-ped? What about a motorcycle? Should Harley riders
get the same warning as a cyclist? Is getting smacked by a car less risky on
a street-legal dirt bike than on a mountain bike?

Bikes are vehicles, just like any other. I think that selective enforcement
is simply stupid. You can (and should) allow officer discretion, but that
should be used based on the circumstances of the case and not the vehicle
type invovled.

This year alone, I've narrowly avoided being doored, side-swiped and cut
off numerous times. I even had one driver get out of his car and grab
my shoulder to try to pull me off my bike while I was at speed in the middle
of a main downtown street. In the later case, a police report was filed.
As much as these guys deserve whatever ticket is appropriate, so do the
cyclists I see who run red lights, ride at road speeds on sidewalks and
a host of other offenses I've seen.

Incidentally, what happens when a cyclist cuts off a car and the driver
causes a collision (maybe hits a pedestrian) trying to avoid the cyclist?
Do you only start cracking down when it's too late?

....stuff deleted

These parents should be cited for contempt of court and thrown in jail.


They should certainly be resonsible for whatever damage was incurred and for
paying whatever fines apply for violating the vehicle laws. Exactly the same
as though they were driving and had the same type of incident. Some folks
seem to feel that cyclists are privleged in some way and should not be held
accountable for their actions. Even though I am a cyclist, I can't get
behind this as a concept.

They are teaching their kid that nothing is ever his fault and he does
not have to bear responsibility for his actions.


Correct. They are also teaching their child that they don't give a flying
F*** about him. I remember my parents reactions when I perfomed some equally
dangerous acts as a youth. It was clear that if I broke something, they paid
compensation and there were definite consequences for me as a result.

He is clearly at fault for almost HITTING A CAR and getting himself
killed.
Why the heck are the parents upset with the cops? They should take
away the kids bike for months for that kind of stupidity and thank
the driver obvious quick reaction that didn't lead to further injury.


He actually did hit, and damage, the hood of the car. Given today's costs,
the $500 the cops cite is a very conservative number. The $1000 is
definitely closer to the mark, at least here in Ca. These folks will also be
seeing an increase in insurance premiums just because it was printed in the
paper and their insurance company knows about the incident. They deserve at
least sufficient compensation from the boy/parents to make up for their
losses.

....stuff deleted

Rick

(sbirn) writes:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:04:34 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
You can fill out an accident report and establish liability without
issuing a citation.

Really? Can you please present your Florida law credentials and a case
history of handling traffic claims?

Hey bozo, this is the case in California, where I live. A couple of
years ago, someone hit my car, doing over $5000 in damage, while I
was *parked* in front of a friends house. I didn't hear about a
citation, but his insurance company picked up my deductable and
the cost of a car rental for a month. That's simply standard when
fault can be clearly established. You don't need a law degree to
know how this works.

It certainly couldn't have been my fault - I was 200 miles away
at the time the accident happened and had parked legally (basically
completely off the road.) The driver (of a truck for a pool-cleaning
business) was probably filling out some paper work or reading where
to go next and wasn't looking at the road. That's about the only
way it would have happened since I was parked just over 100 feet
from the end of a dead-end street that had next to zero traffic.

If Florida allows insurance companies to cheat their customers,
then start firing your governor and elected representatives until
they start representing you instead of the insurance companies.
And don't you believe everything you read in the paper---often
some key facts are missing.

Notifying the parents of an 8 year old who did
something stupid is a useful social service, and that can also be done
without a citation.

Because of the above issue, I disagree. However, I also fail to see
what is wrong with having concrete consequences for his stupidity - or
rather his parents' stupidity in failing to properly teach him road
safety.

You mean you'd rather have his parents pay a fine to the state rather
than compenstate the driver if they don't have the financial resources
to do both?


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:13:26 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
Hey bozo,

Ahh....showing off our intellect I see. Perhaps you are a classmate of
the 8-year old in question?

this is the case in California, where I live. A couple of

Don't complain to me. You're the one who made a very clear factual
statement, and I simply told you to put up or shut up. In the future,
if you are simply making up your own facts, it would help to state as
much in your original message. That way people won't confuse you for
someone actually informed.

was *parked* in front of a friends house. I didn't hear about a
citation,

Tree falls in a forest?

but his insurance company picked up my deductable and
the cost of a car rental for a month. That's simply standard when
fault can be clearly established. You don't need a law degree to
know how this works.

True, but obviously you lack the brain required to see how your case,
even if it occured in the same state, is different from this one.

In your case, it was his insurance company that picked up the tab when
the police determined that you were not at fault. I'm going to go out
on a limb here and suggest that perhaps the 8-year-old's insurance
on his bicycle might not be completly paid up. Flipping it around,
what would have happened if the guy who hit your car had no insurance?
If your insurance company refused to pick up the tab, you'd be on
the hook - or you'd have to take the driver to civil court. Is this
starting to penetrate into the thick receses of your head? Children
do not have insurance on their bikes. In your case, it was a
settlement between two insurance companies. Got it?

If Florida allows insurance companies to cheat their customers,
then start firing your governor and elected representatives until

How is it cheating? All the article suggests to me is that if only
one party is insured, the insurance company needs the police to
make a clear citation of fault (via a ticket) in order for the
insurance company to pick up the tab. Seems pretty simple and
logical to me.

Incidentally, what clue have I given that I am from florida?

And don't you believe everything you read in the paper---often
some key facts are missing.

But we should believe everything you type in a Usenet post? I see.

You mean you'd rather have his parents pay a fine to the state rather
than compenstate the driver if they don't have the financial resources
to do both?

Unless the law can force them to pay outside of a civil suit, I don't
see how they can be compelled to do so. Therefore, I simply pointed
out that if this stupid mother wants to take some moral stand against
the ticket, she should at least back up the consequences of the ticket
and pay for the repairs. After all is said and done, I'd love to
see the parents lose their financial resources to own a car in a
lawsuit, but that is a civil matter for down the road.

(sbirn) writes:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:13:26 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
Hey bozo,

Ahh....showing off our intellect I see. Perhaps you are a classmate of
the 8-year old in question?

Perhaps you should stop acting like a mindless idiot, starting your
posts the way you did. And you might look up the word "hypocrisy"
given your following statements.


this is the case in California, where I live. A couple of

Don't complain to me. You're the one who made a very clear factual
statement, and I simply told you to put up or shut up. In the future,
if you are simply making up your own facts, it would help to state as
much in your original message. That way people won't confuse you for
someone actually informed.

Since you don't know, the facts are that the person who causes damages
is generally held responsible for the damages, either directly or
through insurance.



was *parked* in front of a friends house. I didn't hear about a
citation,

Tree falls in a forest?

No. My friend's wife made sure the police were called, and watched
the whole process. There was a police report. No one saw the
actual collision, and it was at a fairly low speed, so there were
no grounds to write a citation. Citations are written only in
extreme cases.

True, but obviously you lack the brain required to see how your case,
even if it occured in the same state, is different from this one.

I guess you are in the 4th grade, given how you started your post,
although perhaps it is really simply that you are from Florida.


In your case, it was his insurance company that picked up the tab when
the police determined that you were not at fault. In your case, it was a
settlement between two insurance companies. Got it?

Wrong. If the other guy didn't have to pay, his insurance company
wouldn't have paid either.


If Florida allows insurance companies to cheat their customers,
then start firing your governor and elected representatives until

How is it cheating? All the article suggests to me is that if only
one party is insured, the insurance company needs the police to
make a clear citation of fault (via a ticket) in order for the
insurance company to pick up the tab. Seems pretty simple and
logical to me.

Are you actually dumb enough to believe a newspaper account? The
papers get the details wrong a large fraction of the time.


Unless the law can force them to pay outside of a civil suit, I don't
see how they can be compelled to do so.

They can't be compelled to pay *with* a civil suit if they don't have
the assets.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB