Rides

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 9:13:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2018 11:34 AM, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 9:11:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

You have a 2 pound flat repair kit?

You don't? One bag, a couple of innertubes, a couple of CO2 cartridges and a filler or a pump and a multitool? I have a scale and I have weighed many of these things and they all were close to two lbs for a road bike and not some heavy POS touring bike wi8th 32 mm heavy wall innertubes like you ride.

The question is - why have you never weighed any of this? Or do you simply contradict for the reasons unknown to thinking humans?

Well, I'm a LONG way from being a weight weenie. (Few weight weenies use
a canvas handlebar bag plus a canvas Carrimore saddle bag.) I have
weighed everything on my bikes many times, but almost only when
returning home from a bike tour. It's an exercise to tabulate what I
carried, what it weighed and whether it was worth it, so I do better
next time.

But just now, I weighed the "flat repair kit" for the bike I rode
yesterday. Tire levers, patch kit, inner tube and pump totaled ten
ounces. (The inner tube was four ounces of that.) Then I added every
other tool I carry on that bike. The grand total was one pound four ounces.

I did the same for my touring bike, which is the recreation bike I most
often ride. The Zefal HPX frame pump was about 9 ounces. Metal tire
levers plus patch kit were three ounces, tube was five ounces. That's
one pound one ounce for flat repair. Adding every other tool I carry on
that bike took it to one pound eight ounces.

But carry whatever you like. Back when we lived in a small southern
town, we had _lots_ of problems with vicious dogs chasing us. My
solution was to carry a few rocks in the handlebar bag. I got quite good
at pitching rocks at dogs as I rode.

I said then that the _real_ reason for sub-20 pound bikes was so you
could carry more rocks.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I have ultra-light inner tubes for the Colnago. I only have ONE of them in the kit I had yesterday. I just weighed it and not including the plastic device to hold it on the saddle it weighs 1.41 lbs.


In the kit is: 1 ultralight innertube, two CO2 cartridges so that I have one for some poor soul along the road, the plastic tire levers and one multitool that barely had enough leverage yesterday to loosen the crank ring screws. And of course the Topeak canvas bag. And an ultralight patch kit that you can barely feel holding it.

How is it that I'm fairly careful with that and I normally carry two normal weight innertubes on the other bikes and you cannot see how this could weigh 2 lbs?

I am a little lost as to how you have a flat kit with a pump, levers, innertube, repair kit in case of a second flat and can get away with only 10 ounces let along carry a multitool that is actually usable.

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 9:54:31 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 8:49:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:49:48 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 8:32:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.

Well, unless you're a real optimist, you'll want to bring at least one spare and some CO2 or a pump -- and your usual tools, all of which you can get well under 2 lbs, unless you're Joerg, and then you try to get it under 20 lbs.

And CF? I thought you and CF were like gasoline and matches.

-- Jay Beattie.


Jay, I have four road bikes. One of then us tubeless. Presently I'm carrying some CO2 cartridges because I'm still not comfortable with tubeless. But the others all have packs. They all weigh about 2 lbs. I also have one of the superlight pumps with a pressure gauge on it. The pump, filler hose and plastic mount weigh about the same as two CO2 cartridges and a filler.

Why is this foreign to people who claim to ride a great deal?

I have two road bikes, a CX bike (commuter) and a gravel bike -- all ridden on the road with seat packs. All of my seat packs are under 2 lbs. Two tubes (180g-ish), a couple C02 cartridges, inflator (all maybe 200g), a multi-tool, tire lever and bag weight (100g maybe). I'd guess 550 grams tops.. 2 lbs is about 900 grams. I carry things in my jersey -- a cell phone, wallet, and sometimes a spare tube, food, etc., that I do not count as part of seat bag weight.


Yesterday on the ride, a man with a brand new Specialized CF with a TRIPLE (???) got the chain jammed between the middle and small ring. He had no tools and no way of repairing it. Luckily I was there and partially disassembled the triple without destroying his 11 speed chain. So you cannot get rid of carrying a good multitool. I have Triple A if I don't want to carry tools.

I got massive chain suck on my Norco Search gravel bike and paid Ruckus a pretty penny to do the carbon repair, but the repair and paint were immaculate. Those Marxist Bohemians do a great job. You cannot tell the chain stay, downtube and BB were all munged up. The OE installed chain-checker is useless except to trap the chain if it drops off the inner ring.

The tool I really needed to extract the chain was the preload cap/fixing bolt extractor for the Shimano crank so I could remove the crank. I tried to remove the cap with a screw driver, but that just munged it up. I ended up yanking the chain out and riding home -- actually my son rode home. He was riding the bike at the time, but we were together. I should have made him pay for the repair, but I'm taking it out of him in pro-deals.

After stripping and rebuilding the bike, I did something that should have been done at the factory -- put foam padding around the disc hose and rear shift cable housing that runs internally. That really quieted the bike and now the biggest rattle (and it is big) is from a little Pro mini-pump.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, I have this thing called a Deda Dog Fang. This thing weighs next to nothing, is a little difficult but not that hard to install and totally eliminates the problem of a dropped chain. I've used them on standard, compact and triple chainsets and they work great.

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:55:05 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless
the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire
liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers,
heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on
both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get
any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping
up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after
5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't
be fixed unless you have ... a tube.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Orange sealant works perfectly. It is possible to get a hole large
enough to not seal but it would be enough damage that you could NOT
repair a normal clincher either.


Another miracle juice? I had the green stuff. Yeah, it initially even
works but after a few months I suddenly lost pressure. Like a slow flat
with green ozzing out. I could only get home by pumping up every few
miles. I threw that stuff away the same night.

Two other riders on the trail (later, after I had switched to thick
tubes and liners) had tubeless with slime and it sure did not hold. The
goat's head thorns worked themselves back out and slime came out. Lots
of it. They both had to hoof it home.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I gave you a youtube video to show just how incredible tubeless works. But I actually had experience with a large object flat as well. I was riding on a section that was intermittently shaded in bright sunlight. I picked up something that was large enough that it was making the wheel thump and jump. I reached down to clear it with my gloved hand and whatever it was felt like a large shard of possibly glass drive straight into the tire. As it fell out I felt a spray of sealant and stopped to look. In one spot in the center of the traction surface there was a bit of Orange sealant the size of a teaspoon. There was no air leaking and pinching the tube didn't reveal any air loss so I carried on. That was a couple of months ago. They lose air so slowly compared to a clincher that I seldom pump them up. After two weeks of not using it there was still about 40 psi in both tires Sunday.

I am still nervous but I am also sold on them.

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:55:56 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:40, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that
although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my
heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily
the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're
descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just
as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to
tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the
flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only
defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall.
Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost
simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat
and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the
place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are
pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No

Put that in your goats heads.


Well, the experience of riders outbhere was a different one. Same for me
with so-called thorn-proof slime tubes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

There are several kinds of sealant. But Orange is better hands down except you have to replace it every couple of months which I look forward to with a great deal of curiosity. Note: When you buy Orange you also have to buy a filler kit. Be careful. I bought the Orange with a filler kit from somewhere for I think $20 but when I looked at it in a shop it was over $50.

On 2018-09-26 15:54, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:55:05 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing
is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the
ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It
doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending
at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring
just as any other frame material it doesn't continue
reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I
will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by
some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With
tubeless the only defense is the running surface and
sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3"
long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost
simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an
immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any
slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to
me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no
more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you
are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would
be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and
tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with
panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10"
penetration suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling
out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats
on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never
get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept
pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It
didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a
tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Orange sealant works perfectly. It is possible to get a hole
large enough to not seal but it would be enough damage that you
could NOT repair a normal clincher either.


Another miracle juice? I had the green stuff. Yeah, it initially
even works but after a few months I suddenly lost pressure. Like a
slow flat with green ozzing out. I could only get home by pumping
up every few miles. I threw that stuff away the same night.

Two other riders on the trail (later, after I had switched to
thick tubes and liners) had tubeless with slime and it sure did not
hold. The goat's head thorns worked themselves back out and slime
came out. Lots of it. They both had to hoof it home.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I gave you a youtube video to show just how incredible tubeless
works. But I actually had experience with a large object flat as
well. I was riding on a section that was intermittently shaded in
bright sunlight. I picked up something that was large enough that it
was making the wheel thump and jump. I reached down to clear it with
my gloved hand and whatever it was felt like a large shard of
possibly glass drive straight into the tire. As it fell out I felt a
spray of sealant and stopped to look. In one spot in the center of
the traction surface there was a bit of Orange sealant the size of a
teaspoon. There was no air leaking and pinching the tube didn't
reveal any air loss so I carried on.


I assume you meant pinching the tire. A tube that ain't there can't be
pinched :-)

Have you checked for the size of the puncture? That should be visible
under a magnifier and bright light.


... That was a couple of months ago.
They lose air so slowly compared to a clincher that I seldom pump
them up. After two weeks of not using it there was still about 40 psi
in both tires Sunday.

I am still nervous but I am also sold on them.


That is indeed good performance, totally contrary to what I have seen.
Regarding holding pressure the fat tubes are excellent. I pump up to
110psi and more than a month later they are still at 80psi.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-09-26 15:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:55:56 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:40, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the
only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No

Put that in your goats heads.


Well, the experience of riders outbhere was a different one. Same
for me with so-called thorn-proof slime tubes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

There are several kinds of sealant. But Orange is better hands down
except you have to replace it every couple of months which I look
forward to with a great deal of curiosity.


Replace the goo every couple of months? Yikes! Nah, not for me.

That reminds me of an Italian sport car where the user manual said that
the spark plugs have to be swapped against another kind for long freeway
trips, then back to "road plugs". No kidding.


... Note: When you buy Orange
you also have to buy a filler kit. Be careful. I bought the Orange
with a filler kit from somewhere for I think $20 but when I looked at
it in a shop it was over $50.


I think I'll stay with thick tubes and liner. Zero maintenance until the
tire is worn and needs to be replaced. Pumping only every month or two,
and then just a few strokes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:32:31 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-09-26 15:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 12:55:56 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-26 08:40, wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the
only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No

Put that in your goats heads.


Well, the experience of riders outbhere was a different one. Same
for me with so-called thorn-proof slime tubes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

There are several kinds of sealant. But Orange is better hands down
except you have to replace it every couple of months which I look
forward to with a great deal of curiosity.


Replace the goo every couple of months? Yikes! Nah, not for me.

That reminds me of an Italian sport car where the user manual said that
the spark plugs have to be swapped against another kind for long freeway
trips, then back to "road plugs". No kidding.

Why not. After all at low speeds a sparkplug's biggest problem,
disregarding the spark, is getting fouled and running the plug tip
(the center electrode) hotter usually solves that problem, while on a
long high speed trip the problem is the opposite, the tip of the plug
getting too hot.

I've seen race cars warm up on the "warm up plugs" and then when up to
operating temperature the plugs were changed to the "racing plugs".

I agree that it is a bit of a bother but after all if you want a
really high performance device you will have to put up with it's
foibles.


... Note: When you buy Orange
you also have to buy a filler kit. Be careful. I bought the Orange
with a filler kit from somewhere for I think $20 but when I looked at
it in a shop it was over $50.


I think I'll stay with thick tubes and liner. Zero maintenance until the
tire is worn and needs to be replaced. Pumping only every month or two,
and then just a few strokes.
--
Cheers

John B.

On 9/26/2018 6:34 PM, wrote:

I am a little lost as to how you have a flat kit with a pump, levers, innertube, repair kit in case of a second flat and can get away with only 10 ounces...

Well, that's what two scales said. They agreed with each other within a
fraction of an ounce.

... let along carry a multitool that is actually usable.

More detail: That was my Bike Friday folding bike, the one I usually
take when traveling. The extra tools that took the total up to one pound
four ounces include more than a multitool. For example, the Friday came
with a small wrench for use when removing pedals for packing the bike
into its suitcase, plus for headset adjustment. I've also added a couple
of tiny wrenches to remove the handlebar bag mount when packing, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski