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Horst link bending forces



 
 
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  #41  
Old February 6th 18, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Horst link bending forces

AMuzi wrote:

A complete bike is normally attributed to the
framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi
frame(Milano built with British tube & French
lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura
Ace is considered an Italian bicycle.


Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually
seen it/them - they are made in Japan,
I take it?

What about Ultegra [Di2], 105,
Tiagra, Positron?

I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't
benefited from or won't even experience
a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace.
Except for when it fails and s/he has to
acquire spare parts...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
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  #42  
Old February 6th 18, 03:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Horst link bending forces

On Mon, 05 Feb 2018 17:23:39 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

I think it is pretty much a fact of modern
life. Try build and selling a Mercedes
automobile :-) Or even labeling something as
"Made in U.S.A."


This brings up the question, when you say
a bike is from some year, or some country, what
exactly does this refer to?

With a brand, it is easy, but with the actual
product I mean?

Perhaps, in the order of relative weight to the
answer,


1. frame and fork

2. wheels

3. contact points (bar, saddle, pedals)

4. components?


Design? Only if it is in any way radical or
have any groundbreaking ideas or concepts.

As for point (1) and the Crescent case, what if
the tubes and lugs are from one place, only
wielded someplace else? I'd say the material
gets the upper hand in such cases.

For example, they put together Nishiki bikes in
Gothenburg from Japanese (or Taiwanese most
likely) material. I would consider such a bike
Taiwanese, Japanese, and Swedish as a very
distant third, assuming it was actually put
together in Gothenburg and not entirely in
Taiwan or some other part of the world.

A number of car makers are building automobiles in countries other in
where their home office is located. Is a Honda built in the U.S. an
American made auto?




I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061
aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in
1935 :-)



--
Cheers,

John B.

  #43  
Old February 6th 18, 03:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Horst link bending forces

John B. wrote:

A number of car makers are building
automobiles in countries other in where their
home office is located. Is a Honda built in
the U.S. an American made auto?


If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame
is put together in the US then yes, if we were
to transfer this definition from bikes to cars.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #44  
Old February 6th 18, 06:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
dave[_3_]
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Posts: 61
Default Horst link bending forces

On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 09:59:47 -0800, Joerg wrote:

snip

I've seen injuries with fork failures (TK being a prime example) and
with early Al MTB front-end failures. I saw some front-ends detach,
although after big impacts that would have ejected the rider in any
event. I'm not in the know with MTBs, but it seems that suspension
failures would just result in a crippled bike rather than a crippled
rider.


It depends. If my rear shock detached the bike would bottom out. The
posterior mount of that loosened twice, last time on Wednesday, but now
I learned the symptoms and carry a 2nd 5mm Allen wrench in a pocket so I
can check tightness once in a while without having to unpack the tool
kit.


Maybe the application of some thread lock may be beneficial.

snip
--
davethedave
  #45  
Old February 6th 18, 06:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Horst link bending forces

On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 03:47:29 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

A number of car makers are building
automobiles in countries other in where their
home office is located. Is a Honda built in
the U.S. an American made auto?


If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame
is put together in the US then yes, if we were
to transfer this definition from bikes to cars.


Actually that was sort of leading question as in quite a few
countries, Indonesia and Thailand for certain, the decision of whether
a vehicle was local made or not was dependent on the percent and type
of parts that imported as opposed to made locally.

The question local made/imported was a rather important decision as it
effected taxes and duties, usually greatly, the import duty on a
completely foreign made auto could be as much as 300%.


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #46  
Old February 6th 18, 08:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Horst link bending forces

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 2:36:17 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

A complete bike is normally attributed to the
framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi
frame(Milano built with British tube & French
lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura
Ace is considered an Italian bicycle.


Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually
seen it/them - they are made in Japan,
I take it?

What about Ultegra [Di2], 105,
Tiagra, Positron?

I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't
benefited from or won't even experience
a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace.
Except for when it fails and s/he has to
acquire spare parts...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality.

Lou
  #47  
Old February 6th 18, 02:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Horst link bending forces

On 2/5/2018 6:47 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
John B. wrote:

A number of car makers are building
automobiles in countries other in where their
home office is located. Is a Honda built in
the U.S. an American made auto?


If the automobile equivalent of the bike frame
is put together in the US then yes, if we were
to transfer this definition from bikes to cars.


The domestic content laws are so convoluted (written to benefit the
former big 3) that going by the final assembly location is really the
only logical way to determine country-of-origin.

Is a Ford built in Mexico an American vehicle (accepting the common
definition of "American" as U.S.) just because Ford's headquarters is in
the U.S.? Is a Toyota built in the U.S. a Japanese vehicle? And of
course Toyota has huge U.S. design centers, they are not just doing
assembly here. I'm more concerned with the jobs of auto workers than the
jobs of corporate execs.
  #48  
Old February 6th 18, 02:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Horst link bending forces

On 2/5/2018 11:34 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 2:36:17 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

A complete bike is normally attributed to the
framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi
frame(Milano built with British tube & French
lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura
Ace is considered an Italian bicycle.


Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually
seen it/them - they are made in Japan,
I take it?

What about Ultegra [Di2], 105,
Tiagra, Positron?

I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't
benefited from or won't even experience
a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace.
Except for when it fails and s/he has to
acquire spare parts...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality.


Enough buyers aren't concerned about proper gearing, they are more
concerned with buying DuraAce.

My friend recently had a custom titanium bicycle made for her. She had
to go with 105 in order to get proper gearing. But as you said, it's
hard to tell the difference.
  #49  
Old February 6th 18, 03:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Horst link bending forces

On 06/02/2018 2:34 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 2:36:17 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

A complete bike is normally attributed to the
framebuilder, that is, a classic Masi
frame(Milano built with British tube & French
lugs) sold in Chicago and assembled with Dura
Ace is considered an Italian bicycle.


Speaking of Dura Ace, I have never actually
seen it/them - they are made in Japan,
I take it?

What about Ultegra [Di2], 105,
Tiagra, Positron?

I've heard that the regular cyclist isn't
benefited from or won't even experience
a difference moving from Ultegra to Dura Ace.
Except for when it fails and s/he has to
acquire spare parts...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality.

I think Shimano filters the tech down over development cycles:
https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/gear-...-groupset.html


  #50  
Old February 6th 18, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Horst link bending forces

On 2018-02-05 21:20, dave wrote:
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018 09:59:47 -0800, Joerg wrote:

snip

I've seen injuries with fork failures (TK being a prime example) and
with early Al MTB front-end failures. I saw some front-ends detach,
although after big impacts that would have ejected the rider in any
event. I'm not in the know with MTBs, but it seems that suspension
failures would just result in a crippled bike rather than a crippled
rider.


It depends. If my rear shock detached the bike would bottom out. The
posterior mount of that loosened twice, last time on Wednesday, but now
I learned the symptoms and carry a 2nd 5mm Allen wrench in a pocket so I
can check tightness once in a while without having to unpack the tool
kit.


Maybe the application of some thread lock may be beneficial.


Loctite didn't help. This is on the side of the upper Horst link part
that flexes when braking hard. It happens on steep stretches of trail.
Though usually only every few hundred miles so a 5mm Allen wrench
carried in a quickly accessible pocket is fine. You just have to watch
for the symptoms before something down there eats itself.

--
Gruesse, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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