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Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 4th 20, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?
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  #2  
Old July 4th 20, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?
  #3  
Old July 5th 20, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rich[_6_]
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Posts: 2
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Saturday, 4 July 2020 17:28:28 UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


You are complete wrong on this, it's not possible for a tire with a larger contact patch to have lower rolling-resistance than a small, higher inflation tire. Where did you learn physics, grade-school?
I know a lot of people on mountain bikes who switched from 2.25" tires to 1.9" to lower rolling resistance.
  #4  
Old July 5th 20, 03:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 17:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Rich
wrote:

On Saturday, 4 July 2020 17:28:28 UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


You are complete wrong on this, it's not possible for a tire with a larger contact patch to have lower rolling-resistance than a small, higher inflation tire. Where did you learn physics, grade-school?
I know a lot of people on mountain bikes who switched from 2.25" tires to 1.9" to lower rolling resistance.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_resistance
Rolling_resistance = CRF * Normal_force
where CRF is the coefficient of rolling friction.

CRF is determined by the road and tire materials and construction. It
doesn't change with inflation pressure.

Normal force is pressure perpendicular to road surface. As the tire
pressure decreases, the size of the contact patch in square-inches
increases. The weight of the rider and bicycle do not change with
tire inflation pressure. Therefore, the only thing left to change is
the "ground pressure" which goes down as the size of the contact patch
increases in size. This is why vehicles that travel on ice and snow
use big balloon tires with a big contact patch and minimal ground
pressure.

Since CRF is constant, and the Normal_force decreases with lower tire
pressure, the Rolling_resistance also decreases.

When you take the same rider and bike, and switch from slicks to
knobbies, you reduce the ground patch area. That increases the ground
pressure, which causes the rolling resistance to increase. That's one
reason why riding knobbies on pavement is like dragging an anchor.

Anecdotal Drivel: I don't ride much any more, but when I do, I prefer
slicks (on pavement). Nashbar Slick ATB Tire 26x1.25 NS-SBT. Not
exactly balloon tires, but cheap and good enough for my limited
requirements. Something like this, but different size, and without
the sidewall decorations:
https://www.nashbar.com/continental-gatorskin-street-mountain-tire-26-x-11-8-0118365/p1202379





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #5  
Old July 5th 20, 05:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 1:21:46 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
On Saturday, 4 July 2020 17:28:28 UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


You are complete wrong on this, it's not possible for a tire with a larger contact patch to have lower rolling-resistance than a small, higher inflation tire. Where did you learn physics, grade-school?
I know a lot of people on mountain bikes who switched from 2.25" tires to 1.9" to lower rolling resistance.


Oh, I didn't learn any physics. (Why buy a cow when you can by milk by the litre?) I just learned to stay alive as a racing driver. The proof of the pudding, my old son, is that I'm here and not even walking on sticks like most of my contemporaries. My book on designing and building prototype automobiles used to be given to every new designer at GM as he came through the door to start his first day of work, and Chrysler bought in my hemi-head design on one of their engines. (1) So we can confidently conclude that at least I know more physics than you do, eh? And any I can't be bothered to explain, Jeff will explain to you. (2)

(1) Not even physics. A cousin who was the head of a large insurance company gave me their old computer -- this was back when computers had thermionic valves -- if I would take it out neatly, a party from the electrical engineering department of my university helped me install it in the basement of the admin building which one of my godfathers paid to convert and another gave a fund to staff with white coats, and for my first party trick on it I designed a swirl chamber. The craftsman who operated my dynamometer would never let "the boy genius" near it because "the ****er will break it", so not so much physics as a spot of vector math.

(2) I'm too old and too fly for bull**** like explaining factorial inputs to rolling resistance to uppity kids who know everything. I remember Jobst's frustration when he couldn't persuade people with engineering degrees -- and railroad minds! -- of such an obvious truth. Life is too short.

Andre Jute
You should find out who someone is before you try to patronise him
  #6  
Old July 5th 20, 06:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 3:21:21 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 17:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Rich
wrote:

On Saturday, 4 July 2020 17:28:28 UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?

You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


You are complete wrong on this, it's not possible for a tire with a larger contact patch to have lower rolling-resistance than a small, higher inflation tire. Where did you learn physics, grade-school?
I know a lot of people on mountain bikes who switched from 2.25" tires to 1.9" to lower rolling resistance.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_resistance
Rolling_resistance = CRF * Normal_force
where CRF is the coefficient of rolling friction.

CRF is determined by the road and tire materials and construction. It
doesn't change with inflation pressure.

Normal force is pressure perpendicular to road surface. As the tire
pressure decreases, the size of the contact patch in square-inches
increases. The weight of the rider and bicycle do not change with
tire inflation pressure. Therefore, the only thing left to change is
the "ground pressure" which goes down as the size of the contact patch
increases in size. This is why vehicles that travel on ice and snow
use big balloon tires with a big contact patch and minimal ground
pressure.

Since CRF is constant, and the Normal_force decreases with lower tire
pressure, the Rolling_resistance also decreases.

When you take the same rider and bike, and switch from slicks to
knobbies, you reduce the ground patch area. That increases the ground
pressure, which causes the rolling resistance to increase. That's one
reason why riding knobbies on pavement is like dragging an anchor.


Thanks, Jeff. It's really humbling to see your patience with the less gifted. -- AJ

  #7  
Old July 5th 20, 05:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On 7/4/2020 4:28 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


Maybe, maybe not.
Rolling resistance is a J curve for tires, with extremely
narrow and firm tires suffering loss from bounce and
excessively wide tires from casing flex. Casing material and
thickness, tread material thickness and pattern, inflation
pressure and road surface also move that curve's shape and
height. There's some optimum width for each rider with each
tire design on each road.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old July 5th 20, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 19:21:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

When you take the same rider and bike, and switch from slicks to
knobbies, you reduce the ground patch area. That increases the ground
pressure, which causes the rolling resistance to increase. That's one
reason why riding knobbies on pavement is like dragging an anchor.


I forgot to mumble something about tire pressu

"Everything You Think You Know About Bicycle Tire Pressure is Probably
Wrong"
https://www.roadbikerider.com/the-tire-pressure-revolution-by-jan-heine-d1/
Quoting:
Tire pressure has almost no effect on a tire’s speed.

If lower pressures don’t make tires slower, then you
can create wide tires with supple casings. You run
them at lower pressures, and you don’t give up any
performance on smooth roads. On rough roads, you
actually gain speed, because the tire (and you) bounce
less. And on all roads, you are more comfortable.

Conclusion
Tire pressure does not significantly affect your
bike’s rolling resistance, but the casing construction
of your tires does. This means that you can ride lower
pressures without going slower, and that wide tires
are no slower than narrow ones - as long as they have
similar casings. The fastest tires have supple casings
that consume less energy when they flex, and transmit
fewer vibrations, creating a win-win situation. These
tires roll super-fast no matter at what pressure you
run them.

So, you have a choice. A hard stiff narrow tire at high pressure or
a soft flexible wide tire at low pressure.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #9  
Old July 5th 20, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On 7/5/2020 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/4/2020 4:28 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling
resistance?


You mayÂ* be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that
question, he
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower
rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance".
Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


Maybe, maybe not.
Rolling resistance is a J curve for tires, with extremely narrow and
firm tires suffering loss from bounce and excessively wide tires from
casing flex. Casing material and thickness, tread material thickness and
pattern, inflation pressure and road surface also move that curve's
shape and height.Â* There's some optimum width for each rider with each
tire design on each road.


+1. It's not simple.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #10  
Old July 5th 20, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Fat tire riders look like "fat heads."

On 7/4/2020 8:21 PM, Rich wrote:
On Saturday, 4 July 2020 17:28:28 UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 4:21:07 AM UTC+1, Rich wrote:
Unless the stupid bike is powered, why endure that ridiculous rolling resistance?


You may be inexperienced or a troll, but I've already settled that question, he http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360

Andre Jute
I don't follow the fashion, I create it

PS. BTW, you're ill-informed. Low pressure balloons have a lower rolling resistance, so there is no "ridiculous rolling resistance". Where'd you ever pick up that dumb street corner myth?


You are complete wrong on this, it's not possible for a tire with a larger contact patch to have lower rolling-resistance than a small, higher inflation tire. Where did you learn physics, grade-school?
I know a lot of people on mountain bikes who switched from 2.25" tires to 1.9" to lower rolling resistance.


Assertions and "I know a guy" anecdotes without data and links don't get
much respect around here.

What do you know about mechanical hysteresis?

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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