Groupsets

On Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:50:48 PM UTC-7, sam wrote:
So what's the verdict on SRAM?

You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech. This is rec.bicycles.arguing-jerks

It's a subtle distinction.

As for SRAM, the people I know who've used it seem to be quietly happy with it. I'm not sure I see a unique selling point for it (unless it's cheap), but that's hardly an indictment.



However, Cyclingnews recently posted a review of SRAM Force, the penultimate group, which they gave a "4" on their rating scale, which goes from 4 to 5.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/s...-road-groupset

This may not tell you much about SRAM Force, but it does give us an excuse to explain the subtle art of reading a buff-book tech review and extracting actual data. Follow along as I parse selected quotes...

"While there are still a few key differences, Force is now so close to Red in look, feel and performance that there's almost no reason to move up any higher in the company's range."

-you should buy Rival

"...the 2010 Force levers still offer very natural-feeling ergonomics with independently reach-adjustable brake levers and shift paddles, and longer lever blades for easier braking from the drops."

-braking from the drops has been upgraded from terrible to less terrible.

"As with all SRAM road shifters, spring tensions are reassuringly firm and there's very good tactile feedback but lever feel is still a bit tinny compared to Shimano or Campagnolo, though hardly offensive and easy to get used to."

-spring tension feels excessive. The lever feels like knock-off junk.

"Rear shift performance has been refined slightly over the original Force group, mostly on account of the updated PG-1070 cassette (the PC-1070 chain is unchanged and updates to the rear derailleur are essentially cosmetic). The new PowerGlide shaping reinserts the omitted teeth of the original OpenGlide design but with no perceivable hit in shifting speed or smoothness."

-the novel feature they were so proud of was utter **** in practice. They've abandoned it finally, thank goodness.

"What has improved, however, is the sound quality: even with the same chain design as before, the PG-1070 cassette is noticeably quieter-running and feels a bit silkier under load, thus eliminating a major – and valid – complaint of SRAM critics."

-We didn't mention the atrocious noise in previous reviews. We can't afford to burn potential sponsors with such abandon. Now that they've fixed that show-stopper, we can tell you about it.

"Front shifts on our standard-drive test unit were very good overall but lacking in refinement compared to Campag. Unfortunately for SRAM, that performance gap grows even wider when compared to Shimano and their new fantastically rigid outer rings, which yield the best front shifting in the business hands-down."

-Front shifting is worst in class.

"Both lever feel and overall power have improved over the already-very-good levels thanks to the stiffer and more heavily triangulated upper arm, and both panic stops and decelerations in high-speed descents are handled with competence and confidence. But again, recent advances in Shimano's braking systems put SRAM in catch-up mode.

Weight remains virtually unchanged from the previous generation but the new arms do finally gain proper centring and spring tension adjustments. "

-Braking is not good. On the other hand, the old version was both worse and non-adjustable.

"Arguments between the virtues and vices of the three major component groups aside, this latest Force iteration raises interesting questions for the fate of SRAM's flagship Red package as it offers a superb weight-to-price ratio and excellent overall performance with just a handful of minor areas of improvement. "

-As bad as Force is, Red is just as bad and far more expensive. So it's got that going for it.

"In the meantime, Force buyers will be well served knowing they're getting nearly all of the function and performance of the top dog at a much lower price. But if you're willing to deal with another 100g or so, SRAM's value king Rival group is almost an exact replica of Force in terms of function and around £400 cheaper."

-The Force group serves as a poorly-constructed moron tax. If you're so cheap as to contemplate buying a SRAM group, you'll be wanting to get Rival, which is just as crappy, but is at least priced commensurate with its performance.

(I did some street-price comparisons at Probikekit, and it looks like Force is priced pretty dearly, and Rival somewhat cheaper, but Ultegra is cheaper than Force, and 105 is WAY cheaper than Rival. That may reflect the UK market; it may be less expensive in the US.)

On Mar 18, 3:08*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
On Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:50:48 PM UTC-7, sam wrote:

So what's the verdict on SRAM?

You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech. This is rec.bicycles.arguing-jerks

It's a subtle distinction.

No, it's not.

Your ability to read between the lines is transcendent. I'm guessing
you're lit-up.

R

In article 2251064d-a018-4d92-9c0d-
,
says...

On Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:50:48 PM UTC-7, sam wrote:
So what's the verdict on SRAM?

You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech. This is rec.bicycles.arguing-jerks

It's a subtle distinction.

As for SRAM, the people I know who've used it seem to be quietly happy with it. I'm not sure I see a unique selling point for it (unless it's cheap), but that's hardly an indictment.



However, Cyclingnews recently posted a review of SRAM Force, the penultimate group, which they gave a "4" on their rating scale, which goes from 4 to 5.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/s...-road-groupset

This may not tell you much about SRAM Force, but it does give us an excuse to explain the subtle art of reading a buff-book tech review and extracting actual data. Follow along as I parse selected quotes...

"While there are still a few key differences, Force is now so close to Red in look, feel and performance that there's almost no reason to move up any higher in the company's range."

-you should buy Rival

"...the 2010 Force levers still offer very natural-feeling ergonomics with independently reach-adjustable brake levers and shift paddles, and longer lever blades for easier braking from the drops."

-braking from the drops has been upgraded from terrible to less terrible.

"As with all SRAM road shifters, spring tensions are reassuringly firm and there's very good tactile feedback but lever feel is still a bit tinny compared to Shimano or Campagnolo, though hardly offensive and easy to get used to."

-spring tension feels excessive. The lever feels like knock-off junk.

"Rear shift performance has been refined slightly over the original Force group, mostly on account of the updated PG-1070 cassette (the PC-1070 chain is unchanged and updates to the rear derailleur are essentially cosmetic). The new PowerGlide shaping reinserts the omitted teeth of the original OpenGlide design but with no
perceivable hit in shifting speed or smoothness."

-the novel feature they were so proud of was utter **** in practice. They've abandoned it finally, thank goodness.

"What has improved, however, is the sound quality: even with the same chain design as before, the PG-1070 cassette is noticeably quieter-running and feels a bit silkier under load, thus eliminating a major ? and valid ? complaint of SRAM critics."

-We didn't mention the atrocious noise in previous reviews. We can't afford to burn potential sponsors with such abandon. Now that they've fixed that show-stopper, we can tell you about it.

"Front shifts on our standard-drive test unit were very good overall but lacking in refinement compared to Campag. Unfortunately for SRAM, that performance gap grows even wider when compared to Shimano and their new fantastically rigid outer rings, which yield the best front shifting in the business hands-down."

-Front shifting is worst in class.

"Both lever feel and overall power have improved over the already-very-good levels thanks to the stiffer and more heavily triangulated upper arm, and both panic stops and decelerations in high-speed descents are handled with competence and confidence. But again, recent advances in Shimano's braking systems put SRAM in catch-up
mode.

Weight remains virtually unchanged from the previous generation but the new arms do finally gain proper centring and spring tension adjustments. "

-Braking is not good. On the other hand, the old version was both worse and non-adjustable.

"Arguments between the virtues and vices of the three major component groups aside, this latest Force iteration raises interesting questions for the fate of SRAM's flagship Red package as it offers a superb weight-to-price ratio and excellent overall performance with just a handful of minor areas of improvement. "

-As bad as Force is, Red is just as bad and far more expensive. So it's got that going for it.

"In the meantime, Force buyers will be well served knowing they're getting nearly all of the function and performance of the top dog at a much lower price. But if you're willing to deal with another 100g or so, SRAM's value king Rival group is almost an exact replica of Force in terms of function and around £400 cheaper."

-The Force group serves as a poorly-constructed moron tax. If you're so cheap as to contemplate buying a SRAM group, you'll be wanting to get Rival, which is just as crappy, but is at least priced commensurate with its performance.

(I did some street-price comparisons at Probikekit, and it looks like Force is priced pretty dearly, and Rival somewhat cheaper, but Ultegra is cheaper than Force, and 105 is WAY cheaper than Rival. That may reflect the UK market; it may be less expensive in the US.)

Awesome. Thanks for the good info.

s

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
they gave a "4" on their rating scale, which goes from 4 to 5.

Ha ha.

In article

,
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

On Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:50:48 PM UTC-7, sam wrote:
So what's the verdict on SRAM?

You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech.

Almost entirely people trolling each other badly.

This is rec.bicycles.arguing-jerks

No argument---unless you want one.

It's a subtle distinction.

I certainly cannot discern the distinction.

--
Old Fritz

Ryan wrote:
You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech.

Frederick the Great wrote:
Almost entirely people trolling each other badly.

Amateur trolls suck.

On Mar 18, 5:15*am, sam wrote:
In article 2251064d-a018-4d92-9c0d-
,
says...









On Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:50:48 PM UTC-7, sam wrote:
So what's the verdict on SRAM?

You're looking for rec.bicycles.tech. This is rec.bicycles.arguing-jerks

It's a subtle distinction.

As for SRAM, the people I know who've used it seem to be quietly happy with it. I'm not sure I see a unique selling point for it (unless it's cheap), but that's hardly an indictment.

However, Cyclingnews recently posted a review of SRAM Force, the penultimate group, which they gave a "4" on their rating scale, which goes from 4 to 5.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/s...-road-groupset

This may not tell you much about SRAM Force, but it does give us an excuse to explain the subtle art of reading a buff-book tech review and extracting actual data. Follow along as I parse selected quotes...

"While there are still a few key differences, Force is now so close to Red in look, feel and performance that there's almost no reason to move up any higher in the company's range."

-you should buy Rival

"...the 2010 Force levers still offer very natural-feeling ergonomics with independently reach-adjustable brake levers and shift paddles, and longer lever blades for easier braking from the drops."

-braking from the drops has been upgraded from terrible to less terrible.

"As with all SRAM road shifters, spring tensions are reassuringly firm and there's very good tactile feedback but lever feel is still a bit tinny compared to Shimano or Campagnolo, though hardly offensive and easy to get used to."

-spring tension feels excessive. The lever feels like knock-off junk.

"Rear shift performance has been refined slightly over the original Force group, mostly on account of the updated PG-1070 cassette (the PC-1070 chain is unchanged and updates to the rear derailleur are essentially cosmetic). The new PowerGlide shaping reinserts the omitted teeth of the original OpenGlide design but with no

perceivable hit in shifting speed or smoothness."











-the novel feature they were so proud of was utter **** in practice. They've abandoned it finally, thank goodness.

"What has improved, however, is the sound quality: even with the same chain design as before, the PG-1070 cassette is noticeably quieter-running and feels a bit silkier under load, thus eliminating a major ? and valid ? complaint of SRAM critics."

-We didn't mention the atrocious noise in previous reviews. We can't afford to burn potential sponsors with such abandon. Now that they've fixed that show-stopper, we can tell you about it.

"Front shifts on our standard-drive test unit were very good overall but lacking in refinement compared to Campag. Unfortunately for SRAM, that performance gap grows even wider when compared to Shimano and their new fantastically rigid outer rings, which yield the best front shifting in the business hands-down."

-Front shifting is worst in class.

"Both lever feel and overall power have improved over the already-very-good levels thanks to the stiffer and more heavily triangulated upper arm, and both panic stops and decelerations in high-speed descents are handled with competence and confidence. But again, recent advances in Shimano's braking systems put SRAM in catch-up
mode.

Weight remains virtually unchanged from the previous generation but the new arms do finally gain proper centring and spring tension adjustments. "

-Braking is not good. On the other hand, the old version was both worse and non-adjustable.

"Arguments between the virtues and vices of the three major component groups aside, this latest Force iteration raises interesting questions for the fate of SRAM's flagship Red package as it offers a superb weight-to-price ratio and excellent overall performance with just a handful of minor areas of improvement. "

-As bad as Force is, Red is just as bad and far more expensive. So it's got that going for it.

"In the meantime, Force buyers will be well served knowing they're getting nearly all of the function and performance of the top dog at a much lower price. But if you're willing to deal with another 100g or so, SRAM's value king Rival group is almost an exact replica of Force in terms of function and around �400 cheaper."

-The Force group serves as a poorly-constructed moron tax. If you're so cheap as to contemplate buying a SRAM group, you'll be wanting to get Rival, which is just as crappy, but is at least priced commensurate with its performance.

(I did some street-price comparisons at Probikekit, and it looks like Force is priced pretty dearly, and Rival somewhat cheaper, but Ultegra is cheaper than Force, and 105 is WAY cheaper than Rival. That may reflect the UK market; it may be less expensive in the US.)

Awesome. Thanks for the good info.

s

Not all of them in here are total ****wits. Just most.

Nagurski wrote:
Not all of them in here are total ****wits. Just most.

Well no, the lucky ones are asshats because they get their cheques in
the male first while the best are ****tards.