Your gearing is obsolete

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 14 June 2020 22:17:40 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
You ignored the "was not previously dominant" part. Check out Amsterdam
in the 1950s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4XQElmO_E
Snipped
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yeah, but most of those people riding ar not utility bicyclists since
they don't have a handlebar bag. VBEG LOL

Cheers


Wtf Is a utility bicyclist? Lol

On 6/15/2020 6:10 PM, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 14 June 2020 22:17:40 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
You ignored the "was not previously dominant" part. Check out Amsterdam
in the 1950s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4XQElmO_E
Snipped
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yeah, but most of those people riding ar not utility bicyclists since
they don't have a handlebar bag. VBEG LOL

Cheers


Wtf Is a utility bicyclist? Lol


Like a utility infielder except different:

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Util...fielder/en-en/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/15/2020 3:38 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 9:49:07 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Where you have meditation centers, we have Presbyterian churches. You
have tattoo parlors, we have opticians. You have cannabis outlets, we
have Walgreens. You have innumerable cafes, we have just two competing
coffee shops. One is always struggling while the other is subsidized by
a wealthy guy so his kids can run it for fun.

Culture makes a difference.

Apparently, you need to change your culture. My wife is a Lutheran, and she commuted by bike when I met her -- back when Portland was weird but claimed to be normal. I think Presbyterians can ride bikes, although they are farsighted.

:-) I'm sure Presbyterians _can_ ride bikes... [No offense to any now
reading!]
You keep pretending to state my arguments, but you tailor them to your
rebuttals. I have never said that facilities have NO impact on
ridership. Yesterday my wife and I purposely avoided a MUP because I
knew it would be clotted with walkers and bikers. They drove to and from
the MUP, but they did ride or walk it.

I'm trying to figure out how this goes with your topic sentence. Was that MUP a waste of taxpayer money, and was it sited to promote cycling and failed?

I don't know what topic sentence you're referring to. But:
That particular MUP has an unusual history. Our local metropark
stretches from the city center out into the suburbs. It has 23 miles of
roadway, IIRC, most of it along two sides of a big creek.

The southernmost mile or so of road on one side of the creek had to be
closed for quite a while for a culvert replacement. Immediately, walkers
and path bikers started using it in droves. The park administration was
amazed, and after a while responded to pleas to keep it closed.
Eventually they added amenities like parking (always crowded) at each
end, extra rest rooms, water fountains, etc.

So it's a MUP, but very unusual. It's a full 18 feet wide, IIRC. It has
a bike speed limit of 10 mph (generally moderately disobeyed) but no
speed limit for runners or skaters. Riding it requires caution, courtesy
and quick reflexes. I've known at least three cyclists who hit
pedestrians and went down, with two of them the ped's fault.

At least this one never masqueraded as a "transportation" facility. All
expenses came out of the park budget, which is appropriate.

In fact, I can propose one local route for a MUP that would actually do
significant good. It's a barely-used railway line from the inner city
past the big local mall and shopping areas. It has relatively few street
crossings, so there would be minimal crossing conflicts. And if extended
past the mall, it would give more pleasant access to a hospital complex
and surrounding country roads

But if it were built, this would still not be a bicycling town. And the
mall developer would probably lobby against it, because it would make it
easier for poor black people to shop at the mall. Besides, October
through March it would get roughly zero use; people here seem to resist
bicycling when the temperature is below 40F, let alone below freezing.

Sounds like low-hanging fruit and easy to roll into development approval. Go for it! What's the worst that could happen? You could use it as your great test case -- go out there and count bikes.

Well, it's not up to me. It was proposed maybe 15 years ago, but the
controlling authorities decided against it, in favor of the rail line.
Personlly, I think both could exist in the right-of-way.

BTW, what is a barely used rail line? Is it used sometimes? Would the RR abandon it. If you have to buy back the right-of-way from the RR or landowners, that's a whole other issue.

It's owned by the local "Port Authority" (which I don't understand,
because we have no port). It's used by one tiny rail company whose
workers told me "Oh yes, we send a train on it every day." As I
understand, the train (maybe ten cars max?) takes mostly construction
trash to a landfill about 20 miles away.

I'm at the outer range of the train whistle, but I don't hear it
anywhere near every day. When I've seen the train pass, it's traveled at
less than walking speed.

I think the whole thing is an exercise in maintaining rail right-of-way
in case a real need arises for that rail line.

If there were 100 U.S. cities that had raised their bike mode share
above 2% by building bike infrastructure, I think you'd have a glimmer
of an argument. But even then - 2%?? In what arena is that called success?

When prior was zero, 2% is pretty good -- and it generally means a much higher local percentage. Why not get neighborhoods on bikes even if the whole-city numbers are pitiful?

You just described lowering your standards until they are met. Yes, low
standards are the key to happiness; but that mental trick is not a good
way of determining public policy. How about "return on investment"?

And if you really want to get just one pocket of a large city on bikes,
are you sure building segregated facilities at a million bucks a mile
are the most efficient way?

OT, I like some facilities just because they are peaceful and beat the hell out of the roadway by any metric.

Sure, they can be more aesthetic. I usually choose smaller streets for
that reason. But as I've said and written for our club, there's no doubt
we've had far more crashes per mile ridden on MUPs than on roads. It's
not even close.

Be careful out there!

Anyway, I agree that we shouldn't be extravagant and shouldn't build bad infrastructure, but I've seen huge increases in cycling in Portland in the last 35 years -- like from zero to too many some days, and it has followed large moves by planning departments and advocacy groups which included facility building, albeit mostly bike lanes and some larger centerpiece trails. We were still weird 35 years ago (had more jazz clubs back then by far -- plenty of weed, albeit not in shops and tattoo parlors), but assuming the new-comers are weirder and more into bikes, then we should capitalize on that.

That's fine, but I'll note the lack of dose response lately in Portland.
That is, bike mode share is not going up as bike infra miles increase.
You've had a great run of fashion, where people in Portland bike mostly
because people in Portland bike. (Kind of like people hoard toilet paper
because people are hoarding toilet paper.) But it may be trending down -
or would if not for COVID, which has upended everything.

My neighbor has a kid in Portland. He says his kid rides for lots of his
transportation. He also plays in several bands, wears skinny jeans and
has long curly hair. He moved to Portland because that's where you move
if you like to ride a bike, play in a band, wear skinny jeans and have
long curly hair. (Sorry, I don't know his tattoo status; but I can guess.)

But just as a bike lane sucks a certain number of bikers off parallel
streets, Portland's bike infra did not turn him into a rider. In effect,
it caused this area to lose one rider.

Those promoting segregated bike infrastructure are actually promising
massive social change. But social change is really hard to predict, and
even harder to control. I doubt the current massive push for segregated
facilities "so we _finally_ have a safe place to ride" is going to
change America into a bike nation.

--
- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi wrote:
On 6/15/2020 6:10 PM, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 14 June 2020 22:17:40 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
You ignored the "was not previously dominant" part. Check out Amsterdam
in the 1950s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4XQElmO_E
Snipped
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yeah, but most of those people riding ar not utility bicyclists since
they don't have a handlebar bag. VBEG LOL

Cheers


Wtf Is a utility bicyclist? Lol


Like a utility infielder except different:

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Util...fielder/en-en/


When I used to ride my bike to my job at the electric utility, I was a
utility cyclist.

On Monday, 15 June 2020 19:10:14 UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 14 June 2020 22:17:40 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
You ignored the "was not previously dominant" part. Check out Amsterdam
in the 1950s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4XQElmO_E
Snipped
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yeah, but most of those people riding ar not utility bicyclists since
they don't have a handlebar bag. VBEG LOL

Cheers


Wtf Is a utility bicyclist? Lol

According to Frank it has to have a handlebar bag. LOL

Cheers

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:02:03 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

I was on my fashion Synapse -- deductions for discs and UDi2, fancy shoe covers, Showers Pass jacket, tights and jersey. Points for fenders. No Chihuahua carrier, bells, whistles, mirrors, kickstands, etc. I could have used windshield wipers on my glasses, though. Got throttled again and did not stop for a gallon of milk. Totally wasted ride. It was just fun. I should have done an errand. Next time I'll stop at the weed shop on the way home. It's still open and essential.


I don't think a ride is any fun if I don't get to run an errand. Once
I rode from New Salem to Clifton Park to buy a spool of thread. Well,
I went to take a look at Clifton Park, and bought a spool of thread
while I was there.

Lockdown really put a crimp in my exercise program. Then, just as my
favorite destination put in curb service, I discovered that I'd
neglected my latest basal-cell carcinoma a bit too long, and they had
to take off such a big chunk of nose that I needed a skin graft and
the doctor has forbidden me to ride at all. (For a while, lying down
was too strenuous, and I had to sleep in a chair.)

I forget whether I've renewed my library book twice or three times. I
keep thinking that I'll drive to the library, return the book, and
walk to the courthouse and back, but somehow I never get around to it.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:53:41 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Back in the mid 1980s, I had a custom built (Bike Warehouse) Suntour 7 speed freewheel with 13-14-15-16-17-20-24 cogs. Great range with the 52-40 crankset.

On 6/12/2020 9:55 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2020 12:41 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:41:57 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2020 6:09 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:06:56 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/



For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth
biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar
bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more
time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist.Â* Be quiet. You probably wear
a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk
or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your
driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry
and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!


--
- Frank Krygowski

What has that to do with the fact that I prefer using my car for
groceries and not my bike. I only use my bike for non fun rides if
it is more practical.

??? Your question amazes me. You are a direct rebuttal to their claims.

Of course you don't use your bike if your car is "more practical." And
as I recall, you mocked things like handlebar bags - so carrying more
than one liter volume means your car will almost always be "more
practical." For almost all Americans, that is also true. They will use
it as an excuse to never bike for utility.

Also, any trip requiring muscular exertion will make their car "more
practical." Temperatures above 22 C will be too hot to be practical.
Temperatures below 20 C will be too chilly. Rain, or the possibility of
rain will have the same effect. So will snow, of course. And darkness.

The U.S. will never be a bicycling nation. Your own preference for the
car, except for "sport" rides, even in a nation renowned for its cycling
culture adds evidence.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Last year:
mileage car: 7500 km
mileage bike(s): 12000 km.

Give me the numbers for utility riding, as opposed to sport riding.

That will confound how often one rides for utility purposes and how
close one lives to work and shopping. My commuting mileage was always
dwarfed by my sport riding, but I commuted by bike for 39 years, rain,
snow or shine. I also intentionally bought a house as close to work as
possible.

Mark J.

On 6/18/2020 5:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/12/2020 9:55 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2020 12:41 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:41:57 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2020 6:09 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:06:56 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/



For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34
tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar
bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more
time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist.Â* Be quiet. You probably wear
a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk
or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your
driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic
industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!


--
- Frank Krygowski

What has that to do with the fact that I prefer using my car for
groceries and not my bike. I only use my bike for non fun rides if
it is more practical.

??? Your question amazes me. You are a direct rebuttal to their claims.

Of course you don't use your bike if your car is "more practical." And
as I recall, you mocked things like handlebar bags - so carrying more
than one liter volume means your car will almost always be "more
practical." For almost all Americans, that is also true. They will use
it as an excuse to never bike for utility.

Also, any trip requiring muscular exertion will make their car "more
practical." Temperatures above 22 C will be too hot to be practical.
Temperatures below 20 C will be too chilly. Rain, or the possibility of
rain will have the same effect. So will snow, of course. And darkness.

The U.S. will never be a bicycling nation. Your own preference for the
car, except for "sport" rides, even in a nation renowned for its
cycling
culture adds evidence.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Last year:
mileage car: 7500 km
mileage bike(s): 12000 km.

Give me the numbers for utility riding, as opposed to sport riding.

That will confound how often one rides for utility purposes and how
close one lives to work and shopping.Â* My commuting mileage was always
dwarfed by my sport riding, but I commuted by bike for 39 years, rain,
snow or shine.Â* I also intentionally bought a house as close to work as
possible.

I didn't buy a house as close as possible, but I was very careful to buy
a house within my bike commuting distance limit. I set 10 miles as my
limit, but found a house within seven miles. The added benefit of this
place is it's much closer to pharmacies, groceries, a library, banks,
etc. etc.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 4:37:09 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Holland is an extremely unusual case. Most of the country is flat enough that most people can ride a bike for transportation and get someplace in a reasonable amount of time.

The canals were built as means of commercial transportation without which they could never have been afforded or built.