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  #1  
Old April 2nd 20, 09:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Tires and Wheels

I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers
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  #2  
Old April 2nd 20, 11:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 1:46:36 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti plate -- made by Moots.. Super fast and light.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old April 3rd 20, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,318
Default Tires and Wheels

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 1:46:36 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


Tubeless tires and wheels are becoming common. Tubeless rims do not have a deep enough well and hence even a standard clincher tire doesn't mount easily. Tubeless tires are now made so difficult to mount that if you do get a flat which is possible, it is nearly impossible to get the damn tires off of the rim which then slathers you with sealant, get a tube in and then remount the tire.

Since you HAVE to carry a tube along with you in the more rare but not impossible event of a flat that the sealant won't seal, WHY should you be going through all of this pain and effort to begin with?

My suggestion - NEVER buy tubeless wheels. Use only tires designed from the start to be clinchers such as the Michelin Pro4. They are a lot easier to mount and you have a great deal less chance of puncturing the tube mounting them. Carry two tubes.
  #4  
Old April 3rd 20, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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On 4/2/2020 3:46 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


IMHO the tires have not changed[1] but rather many, all too
damned many, modern rims are deficient in design by having
too small a heigh difference from bead seat to center well.
Compound that negligence with both OEM and LBS who drop in
a too-thick or too wide rim liner and yes, it sucks.
This is clearly not what the brothers Michelin intended!

[1]some variance but IME brands vary more in suppleness than
actual size, stiff, rigid tires being unforgiving of
underlying fit problems
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old April 3rd 20, 07:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,563
Default Tires and Wheels

On 02/04/2020 22:46, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with
bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it
is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on
was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack
to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture
whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use
removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on
a ride.


No, there is no such thing, it's just bad procedure. I have lost count
of the number of times I've had conversations like "It needs a special
tyre for the fit", "I need a 500 ton press to get the tyre on", "I need
to cut the rim in half to remove the tyre".

The bead must, how can I say this MUST be in the rim well. Use a zip
tie or a toe strap to keep it there. Yes you need tyre levers to get a
tyre off[1], but putting them on, assuming you have no issues with your
hands (I do!) then you shouldn't need them.

[1] I really like

https://www.amazon.com/SCHWALBE-1847.../dp/B000UAQL6C

but for my target audience these are probably the best

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2pcs-18-...-/263390150432

  #6  
Old April 3rd 20, 08:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Tires and Wheels

On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.


Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.


I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims and
tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now have
pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things are much
better.



  #7  
Old April 3rd 20, 08:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 12:59:48 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 1:46:36 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead. Time and crying makes it break loose.

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.

-- Jay Beattie.


I also notice quite a difference getting a tire on and off between tubeless ready rims and the old fashioned rims. On my Zipp wheels it is almost a pleasure to have a flat, on my tubeless ready DT swiss rims it is always a struggle and the bladed spokes also don't help. Arghhh... do you have to mention Moots?

Lou
  #8  
Old April 3rd 20, 11:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
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Posts: 173
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sms wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have had a miserable time getting 4Seasons off a HED Ardennes tubeless
ready rim. They stick to the beadseats, and I think the HED sticky-tape
rim strip compounds the problem. You get a flat and sit there by the
side of the road wrestling with the tire like an over-glued tubular. You
can't even get it out of the beadseat to get a tire iron under the bead.
Time and crying makes it break loose.


Hopefully you learned your lesson about using tubeless and went back to
using tubes on those rims. Tubeless tires on bicycles are the answer to
a question that nobody asked (except racers with support vehicles
following them).

I've never taken an Uber or Lyft. That's for sissies. I once scootered
and rode one-legged for 15 miles after breaking a crank. My wife did
come and pick me up after I crashed with my son, but he called for the
ride. I had a broken hand but could have made it home, maybe. Double
tap is a killer with a broken hand. That fracture was fixed with a Ti
plate -- made by Moots. Super fast and light.


I had an impossible time getting the stock tire off of my Dahon Speed
TR. Needed to call for a ride. I had no tire levers with me since
normally they are not necessary. I once bought some Performance "Forte"
700c tires and they were not possible to put on or take off without
levers. When you get the combination of wheels with "difficult" rims and
tires that may be a bit too small, it can require levers. I now have
pretty much switched to all Schwalbe tires and tubes and things are much
better.





My guess is that Jay’s rims are tubeless ready but his tires are not
tubeless.

  #9  
Old April 3rd 20, 12:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Larry Mamacita
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Posts: 2
Default Tires and Wheels

Larry tells me his buddy Abdul has a worker named Ashed who can blow up a tire to 50 pounds using her lips... with the bike in motion!
  #10  
Old April 3rd 20, 03:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,318
Default Tires and Wheels

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:36:05 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:46 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I wonder if we can keep this thread on-topic?

I noticed on a lot of bicycling forums, at bicycle shops and with bicyclists at stops and/or coffee shops, complain about how hard it is/was to get their tires mounted onto the rims. Getting the tire on was so hard that they had to resort to using some sort of tire jack to get the tire mounted.

#1. Is this super-tight tire/rim fit becoming more common?

#2. Do these bicyclists have to call for a ride if they puncture whilst on a ride? Because they can't get their tire off the rim?

Sounds like a super-tight tire/rim fit might be a good reason to use removeable valve cores and to carry a small bottle of tire sealant on a ride.

Cheers


IMHO the tires have not changed[1] but rather many, all too
damned many, modern rims are deficient in design by having
too small a heigh difference from bead seat to center well.
Compound that negligence with both OEM and LBS who drop in
a too-thick or too wide rim liner and yes, it sucks.
This is clearly not what the brothers Michelin intended!

[1]some variance but IME brands vary more in suppleness than
actual size, stiff, rigid tires being unforgiving of
underlying fit problems
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


That is also a problem. These elastic rim strips definitely are not improving the situation and on tubeless you have to use this paper thin tape sort of stuff that is - of course - made in China. https://www.amazon.com/ZUKKA-Tubeles...dDbGljaz10cnVl

I have now broken so many levers that showing me plastic levers that are not coated steel do not much impress me. I have a set of those Swalbe levers that Tosspot refers to and they don't work well because the ends are too wide Mounting ONE tire has them worn down a great deal.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZMX44FK...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

This is the best I have used so far for this problem but though you CAN get them to nest together it is damn near as hard as mounting a tire.

This not imaginary since the older plastic tire levers snap the ends off on the second try.
 




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