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Do pedestrians always have the right of way?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 31st 13, 03:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Gus
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Posts: 242
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

In the US, I have heard it said "pedestrians always have the
right-of-way" but I think it's an old wives tale and not true in RL.

Found an article that seem apropos. Even sites "vehicle code" (assuming
referring to SF, or CA)

"The other morning, on my normal cycling commute to the train station, a
pedestrian yelled at me. I had been waiting at a red light. When it
turned green, I started into an intersection heading north. On the other
side of the intersection, as I was about halfway through, a pedestrian
and his friend who had been walking west stepped into the street,
directly in my path. Again, I had a green light. They had red.
Noticing that their light was red, the friend looked up, said "oops,"
and stopped. But the pedestrian blustered on, staring me down for good
measure. By the time I got close to him, he was still only a few steps
into the intersection, so I looked over my left shoulder to make sure
there were no cars behind me, moved to my left a bit, and rode in front
of him (in other words, directly in his path) since there was more space
in front of him than there was between his ample butt and the curb.

Naturally, he gave me a nasty look and gestured with his hands in a
"what gives?" sort of way. Like a dope, I said something lame about how
I had a green light. In a flash, his face flushed. "I'm a pedestrian,"
he shouted. "Pedestrians always have the right of way!" It was a lovely
morning, but this guy was spoiling for a fight.

"What a dick," I thought, without turning back or slowing to engage the
fool further (I had a train to catch). He wouldn't have been so bold if
I had been behind the wheel of a garbage truck, but a cyclist? That was
a battle he was apparently prepared to pick.

Then, quick on the heels of that thought, I began to wonder if his claim
of legally granted entitlement was even true.

An attorney friend thought it probably was, even if the pedestrian was
clearly jaywalking. But I wasn't convinced, so I looked it up. Here's
what it says in the Vehicle Code:

"Right-of-Way at Crosswalks


21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a
pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within
any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided
in this chapter.

(b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using
due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb
or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that
is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. No pedestrian may
unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked
crosswalk.

(c) The driver of a vehicle approaching a pedestrian within any marked
or unmarked crosswalk shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the
speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation
of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian.

(d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty
of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within any
marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection."

So, I had been following Subdivision (d) by taking care to avoid this
rather arrogant pedestrian, even though he was jaywalking. Brownie
points for me. But I could not find a clause that states, in so many
words, that a pedestrian does not have the right of way in a crosswalk
if they are jaywalking. So maybe I lose on a technicality? If you know
for sure, please let me know.

The closest I could come to vindication was an article in the Whittier
Daily News written by Al Perez of the California Highway Patrol. In it,
he cites a Sgt. Billy Tyler of the Temecula Police Department who says
that "When a pedestrian has the green light to walk, they have the
right-of-way. However, if the vehicle has the green light, the
pedestrian must yield to the vehicle and must obey the pedestrian
signal."

That seems reasonable enough, although a police officer's interpretation
of the law may not be the same as a judge or jury's. Bottom line, I will
continue to ride my bike through intersections when given a green light,
and I'll also continue to take measures to avoid hitting the jaywalkers
in my path. Fair?

http://www.examiner.com/article/do-p...e-right-of-way

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  #2  
Old July 31st 13, 04:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:49:04 AM UTC-7, Gus wrote:

In the US, I have heard it said "pedestrians always have the
right-of-way" but I think it's an old wives tale and not true in RL.


"This is social space, so when Grandma is coming, you stop, because that's what normal, courteous human beings do," he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/22/international/europe/22monderman.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0

snip
  #3  
Old July 31st 13, 06:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Gus
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Posts: 242
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

"Dan O" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:49:04 AM UTC-7, Gus wrote:

In the US, I have heard it said "pedestrians always have the
right-of-way" but I think it's an old wives tale and not true in RL.


"This is social space, so when Grandma is coming, you stop, because
that's what normal, courteous human beings do," he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/22/international/europe/22monderman.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0

snip



"Mr. Monderman's obsessions can cause friction at home. His wife hates
talking about road design."

lol... I'll bet she does.


This article sounds very counter-intuitive, but maybe making the road
less structured without sign, signals, lines, etc. makes motorists more
cautious and peds and bikes more noticeable... I noticed the statement
"Mr. Monderman concedes that road design can do only so much. It does
not change the behavior, for instance, of the 15 percent of drivers who
will behave badly no matter what the rules are. Nor are shared-space
designs appropriate everywhere, like major urban centers, but only in
neighborhoods that meet particular criteria." And it concerned me that
he "deliberately failed to check for oncoming traffic before crossing
the street..." What if the 15% were coming down the road at that time?

  #4  
Old August 1st 13, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?


hmmmm traffic laws are based on intelligence. Pedestrians are morons so they have the ROW. Strong cares for weak.

This is true of boat traffic. People sailing are dummies and have ROW, kayaks will always yield due to superior intelligence.

trucks have ROW...the Zombie Factor !

MB and Porsche driven 140 n up have ROW thru evening traffic as dew pickups with custom exhausts, decals, low profile wide tires, n rack guns.
  #5  
Old August 1st 13, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Wes Groleau
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Posts: 555
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

On 07-31-2013 10:49, Gus wrote:
(d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty
of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within any
marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection."


In other words, capital punishment is not authorized for the crime of
jaywalking. Even if it were, "due process" prevents carrying out the
sentence in the intersection. :-)

I once read a blurb in a parody of a driver's manual:

"A pedestrian has the right-of-way if he is directly in front of your
car. At all other times, it is your duty to prevent him from getting
there."

--
Wes Groleau

Words of the Wild Wes
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW

  #6  
Old August 1st 13, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?


https://www.youtube.com/results?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=w1
  #7  
Old August 1st 13, 09:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ian field
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Posts: 1,008
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?



"Gus" wrote in message
...
In the US, I have heard it said "pedestrians always have the right-of-way"
but I think it's an old wives tale and not true in RL.

Found an article that seem apropos. Even sites "vehicle code" (assuming
referring to SF, or CA)

"The other morning, on my normal cycling commute to the train station, a
pedestrian yelled at me. I had been waiting at a red light. When it turned
green, I started into an intersection heading north. On the other side of
the intersection, as I was about halfway through, a pedestrian and his
friend who had been walking west stepped into the street, directly in my
path.


Devious buggers those pedestrians - some will dive under the front wheel of
anything with a front wheel!!!

  #8  
Old August 2nd 13, 04:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,241
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

Gus wrote:
:In the US, I have heard it said "pedestrians always have the
:right-of-way" but I think it's an old wives tale and not true in RL.

In Illinois, it is now the law that you must stop for pedestrians in a
crosswalk, even when the signals say otherwise. (It was, until last
year, merely required to yield for them.) This does not happen where
there are lights. It does occasionally happen at unsignalized
intersections, where there's a sign in the middle of the street
reminding drivers of the law.

--
sig 80
  #9  
Old August 5th 13, 05:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
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Posts: 612
Default Do pedestrians always have the right of way?

On 7/31/2013 7:18 PM, datakoll wrote:

hmmmm traffic laws are based on intelligence. Pedestrians are morons so they have the ROW. Strong cares for weak.

This is true of boat traffic. People sailing are dummies and have ROW, kayaks will always yield due to superior intelligence.

Canoes and kayaks have the right-of-way over powered craft in all US
waters, but you would be a fool to get in the way of a Mississippi River
barge, or a Wisconsin Dells tourist boat.

trucks have ROW...the Zombie Factor !

MB and Porsche driven 140 n up have ROW thru evening traffic as dew pickups with custom exhausts, decals, low profile wide tires, n rack guns.

If someone with an expensive German car thinks that, I am willing to
trade paint NA$CAR style with my old beat up Honda Civic.

--
T0m [email protected]
 




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