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#101
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 12:50:27 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/11/2018 3:56 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 7:55:43 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-10 18:25, John B. wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:25:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/10/2018 4:03 PM, Joerg wrote: Everyone installing a high-powered LED light on a bicycle, front or rear, should walk towards their lit bike during daylight and then again at night. If the light is annoying, do something about it. I agree with this. But I'd add, before buying high powered LED lights, check out any more ordinary lights you have in a similar way. Have a friend ride your bike as you observe. I've done this many times with friends. Contrary to current myths, you do not need super-powerful lights to be plenty visible. Any headlight that shows the road sufficiently will be perfectly visible to motorists, and taillights need far, far less power to make you safe. I had plenty of opportunity to compare StVZO tail lights versus the over there "illegal" lights such as PDW DangerZone or Radbot. HUGE difference in visibility. This was as a motorist in Germany. Since I am also a cyclist I paid particular attention to bicycle equipment because I wanted to know. I also wanted to see if the purchase of some lights from there would make sense since those wouldn't need electronics up front to connect to the 8.4VDC power bus on my bicycles. My conclusion was that it does not. Where is "there"? Are you saying that the PDW light was no good and you need a 8.4VDC tail light? At night, a watt or two is very conspicuous -- except in heavy rainstorms. The most conspicuous light I've every seen was this: https://tinyurl.com/yb5z9ep5 (minus the "beacon lights"). A woman with that jacket was riding east-west, and I was at a stop on a north-south street, and when my light hit her, I was practically blinded -- and it was only a 5-600 lumen light. My wife doesn't ride a night nearly as often as I do. She's most likely to do it when we're on vacations somewhere, as transportation to and from a B&B or something similar. But her "normal" (not just cycling) lightweight jacket is by Illuminite. It seems to reflect light very well - not that I consider that necessary. Our bikes have lights and reflectors that are perfectly fine. -- - Frank Krygowski I more than once said to runners and joggers that I, as a cyclist, rather have that they wear a reflective jacket then running around like a christmas tree. Lou |
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#102
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 13:33:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/11/2018 10:55 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-10 18:25, John B. wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:25:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/10/2018 4:03 PM, Joerg wrote: Everyone installing a high-powered LED light on a bicycle, front or rear, should walk towards their lit bike during daylight and then again at night. If the light is annoying, do something about it. I agree with this. But I'd add, before buying high powered LED lights, check out any more ordinary lights you have in a similar way. Have a friend ride your bike as you observe. I've done this many times with friends. Contrary to current myths, you do not need super-powerful lights to be plenty visible. Any headlight that shows the road sufficiently will be perfectly visible to motorists, and taillights need far, far less power to make you safe. I had plenty of opportunity to compare StVZO tail lights versus the over there "illegal" lights such as PDW DangerZone or Radbot. HUGE difference in visibility. Joerg, I don't think anyone disagrees that super-bright, non-compliant, glaring lights make you more visible. Using an aircraft landing light would make you more visible. Using an emergency vehicle light bar http://www.fleetsafety.com/federal-s...led-light-bar/ would make you more visible. What many people are arguing is that your extremes are not necessary and not even appropriate. They are detrimental to other road users, including other cyclists, and their promotion constitutes more fear mongering. You're being no smarter than the asses who always drive their jacked-up pickups with high beams, light bars and fog lights glaring. It's MFFY behavior. A bicyclist does NOT need headlights as bright as those on a 75 mph car, just as he does not need 10 gauge spokes, motorcycle-strength chains, solid flat-proof tires or all the other extreme equipment you call for. - Frank Krygowski In the morning I see 20 or 25 bicycles in my "hood" every day and to date I've yet to see a light turned on although nearly all of them have a dynamo and head light mounted on the front wheel, and even with the fleets of motorcycle taxi's and the kids going to school and all the folks buying their daily provisions I've yet to see a bicycle collide with anything. How can this be" No lights and no collisions? -- Cheers, John B. |
#103
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
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#104
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from 500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians' impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+ visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified cycles in traffic. The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one that is visible in the daytime as well. You don't need a 1500 lumen tail light, but many are ridiculously weak, 10 lumens, or even less. One that looks reasonable is https://www.lezyne.com/product-led-sport-laserdrive.php with flash modes up to 250 lumens for daytime flash mode. But I don't see a way to mount it to a rear rack. |
#105
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 5:25:55 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote: No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from 500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians' impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+ visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified cycles in traffic. The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one that is visible in the daytime as well. You don't need a 1500 lumen tail light, but many are ridiculously weak, 10 lumens, or even less. I don't know if I've seen a StVZO tail light, but I've see a lot that are invisible either by design or because of dying batteries and a lot that are too bright to ride behind at night. Most fall somewhere in between and are plentiful -- from PDW, Lesyne, L&M, etc. The chronically nervous sometimes have two or three tail lights, which is kind of humorous -- unless they're blinding. Again, in sunshine, I always see the jersey first. I ride up behind someone and notice the tail light when I'm five feet away. It's like a fashion accessory. -- Jay Beattie. |
#106
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-11 12:56, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 7:55:43 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-10 18:25, John B. wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:25:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/10/2018 4:03 PM, Joerg wrote: Everyone installing a high-powered LED light on a bicycle, front or rear, should walk towards their lit bike during daylight and then again at night. If the light is annoying, do something about it. I agree with this. But I'd add, before buying high powered LED lights, check out any more ordinary lights you have in a similar way. Have a friend ride your bike as you observe. I've done this many times with friends. Contrary to current myths, you do not need super-powerful lights to be plenty visible. Any headlight that shows the road sufficiently will be perfectly visible to motorists, and taillights need far, far less power to make you safe. I had plenty of opportunity to compare StVZO tail lights versus the over there "illegal" lights such as PDW DangerZone or Radbot. HUGE difference in visibility. This was as a motorist in Germany. Since I am also a cyclist I paid particular attention to bicycle equipment because I wanted to know. I also wanted to see if the purchase of some lights from there would make sense since those wouldn't need electronics up front to connect to the 8.4VDC power bus on my bicycles. My conclusion was that it does not. Where is "there"? Europe, in this case Germany. In the old days when I lived there I preferred rear lights from the Netherlands though, more sturdy and better lenses. ... Are you saying that the PDW light was no good and you need a 8.4VDC tail light? I returned the PDW light because of IMO shoddy quality. The LED was way off center for the optics path of the lens and they wrote to me that this is "normal". No kidding! The Chinese ones don't have that problem. I don't need an 8.4V rear light but it has a major advantage: No batteries that can run out. Especially since the design engineers of most battery-operated rear lights weren't smart enough to include at least a crude low-batt warning. 1-2-3 flashes at turn on or whatever, it would be so simple. At night, a watt or two is very conspicuous -- except in heavy rainstorms. 1-2W in the rear with modern LEDs is definitely enough. Not in front though if you want to see enough road for a fast night ride. The most conspicuous light I've every seen was this: https://tinyurl.com/yb5z9ep5 (minus the "beacon lights"). A woman with that jacket was riding east-west, and I was at a stop on a north-south street, and when my light hit her, I was practically blinded -- and it was only a 5-600 lumen light. I was not planning on spending $325 for a "tail light". If you are really concerned about being seen, you should use high-viz and reflectors, but I know that interferes with your super-gnarly cotton outfits. During the day, I always see the high-viz before the lights. It interferes with my not wanting to sweat profusely. I ride in thin cotton T-shirts even down to almost freezing. Else I sweat badly during the first climb. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#107
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:25:55 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote: No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from 500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians' impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+ visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified cycles in traffic. The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one that is visible in the daytime as well. You need a daytime taillight exactly as much as you need a tall flippy flag. In fact, the flippy flag is more visible under many circumstances. Here you go: http://www.parkerflags.com/Bicycle-Flags-Prodlist.html You can't be too safe! - Frank Krygowski |
#108
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-12 00:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 13:33:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/11/2018 10:55 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-10 18:25, John B. wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:25:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/10/2018 4:03 PM, Joerg wrote: Everyone installing a high-powered LED light on a bicycle, front or rear, should walk towards their lit bike during daylight and then again at night. If the light is annoying, do something about it. I agree with this. But I'd add, before buying high powered LED lights, check out any more ordinary lights you have in a similar way. Have a friend ride your bike as you observe. I've done this many times with friends. Contrary to current myths, you do not need super-powerful lights to be plenty visible. Any headlight that shows the road sufficiently will be perfectly visible to motorists, and taillights need far, far less power to make you safe. I had plenty of opportunity to compare StVZO tail lights versus the over there "illegal" lights such as PDW DangerZone or Radbot. HUGE difference in visibility. Joerg, I don't think anyone disagrees that super-bright, non-compliant, glaring lights make you more visible. Using an aircraft landing light would make you more visible. Using an emergency vehicle light bar http://www.fleetsafety.com/federal-s...led-light-bar/ would make you more visible. What many people are arguing is that your extremes are not necessary and not even appropriate. They are detrimental to other road users, including other cyclists, and their promotion constitutes more fear mongering. You're being no smarter than the asses who always drive their jacked-up pickups with high beams, light bars and fog lights glaring. It's MFFY behavior. A bicyclist does NOT need headlights as bright as those on a 75 mph car, just as he does not need 10 gauge spokes, motorcycle-strength chains, solid flat-proof tires or all the other extreme equipment you call for. - Frank Krygowski In the morning I see 20 or 25 bicycles in my "hood" every day and to date I've yet to see a light turned on although nearly all of them have a dynamo and head light mounted on the front wheel, and even with the fleets of motorcycle taxi's and the kids going to school and all the folks buying their daily provisions I've yet to see a bicycle collide with anything. How can this be" No lights and no collisions? Can be summed up in one expression: Safety in numbers. We don't have that in most of America. People are more lazy and human-powered propelling is frowned upon as too stressful and too lowly. So hardly anyone does it and car drivers do not anticipate a cyclist. Most towns have mode shares between 0% and 1%. Classic example yesterday. A driver in a parking lot pulled out, me full brakes, she was sorry, nothing happened. She had clearly seen me because 8W into an LED can't be missed. She probably just didn't know that cyclists can be a lot faster in their approach than a pedestrian. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#109
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/12/2018 7:20 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 5:25:55 AM UTC-8, sms wrote: On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote: No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from 500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians' impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+ visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified cycles in traffic. The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one that is visible in the daytime as well. You don't need a 1500 lumen tail light, but many are ridiculously weak, 10 lumens, or even less. I don't know if I've seen a StVZO tail light, but I've see a lot that are invisible either by design or because of dying batteries and a lot that are too bright to ride behind at night. Most fall somewhere in between and are plentiful -- from PDW, Lesyne, L&M, etc. The chronically nervous sometimes have two or three tail lights, which is kind of humorous -- unless they're blinding. Again, in sunshine, I always see the jersey first. I ride up behind someone and notice the tail light when I'm five feet away. It's like a fashion accessory. "Seeing the jersey first" is great if you're riding with recreational riders all wearing yellow or orange fluorescent jerseys. For transportational cycling, which there's a lot of in my area, the riders aren't typically wearing highly visible clothes like that. The key to getting more people out on bicycles is to promote equipment that allows them to ride to work or school in normal clothes, and provide routes that make the ride practical. If you've been to Palo Alto, the cross-town bicycle boulevard is probably about the most usable infrastructure I've seen, and there is no bicycle lane. It continues through Mountain View. We are working on a bicycle boulevard system for Cupertino, and in the last election, the two winners were both in favor of this, while the other three serious candidates had no interest in bicycle infrastructure at all. I have been trying to get a bicycle light giveaway going, even though most riders could afford lights they don't get them. Especially bad is students riding to school in the early morning when it's dark. |
#110
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2018-02-11 10:15, sms wrote:
On 2/11/2018 10:02 AM, Joerg wrote: That is how I used dynamos in the past and would like to do that again. However, in the US it is hard to find a reasonably priced complete front wheel with a hub dynamo and I don't want to spoke up my own. So it'll have to be a bottle dynamo (rollers went the way of the dinosuars) and then I'd like to try Frank's mode with an O-ring and run it on the brake surface nstead of the tire. If we were ever to move to dynamos in the U.S. it would require that bicycle manufacturers have their dealers offer a dynamo wheel upgrade and light on new bikes at a reasonable price. Spending $200 on a new wheel and another $200 on a decent dynamo light is just not going to happen for almost anyone. Yet the extra cost to a bicycle manufacturer would be small, $50 max for a higher-end SP or Shimano dynamo plus a 200 lumen headlight and a tail light. The shop could mark it up to $100. You are right, it's not going to happen in the US. Mostly because the majority of riders sees their bikes as fitness training devices and not as transportation for use at any time of the day or night. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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