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#21
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My Bike Path in the News
On 7/29/2018 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:11:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: That is one of my commute routes, which is now a toxic waste dump... When the authorities are done cleaning up the Portland homeless camps, could you send them my direction and ask them to clean up ours? https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+cruz+homeless+camp&tbm=isch If not, would you mind if we ship our homeless to Portland now that you have some empty space for them? Well, where to you expect the homeless to go? -snip snip- Away. Just go away. "Bus therapy" works especially well for me and for my fellow local taxpayers, as dramatically evidenced in Denver in the 1980s. Great program. More specifically "to California", since no one out on the Left Coast cares now, what's a few more? If they can afford 'sanctuary' for MS13 they can afford bums and criminals who are actually citizens. That's only fair, right? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#22
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My Bike Path in the News
On 7/29/2018 1:37 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm. Lawn order is the solution? During today's ride a woman was blocking my side of a bike path with her overflowing shopping car. She was constantly screaming at herself. It's sad, she was a beautiful younger woman but totally wasted. Probably another OD case. If she was an OD case she'd have been unconscious. More likely this person has schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, a brain injury or bipolar disorder. Us well-to-do folks tend to assume that "if you're homeless" or "if you're poor," it's your own damn fault and you should pull yourself up by your effin' bootstraps and stop bothering me. But of the estimated 500,000 - 600,000 homeless people in the US, a bit under half have a serious and persistent mental illness. How'd that happen? A big contributor was the Reagan Administration which pushed for closing mental health hospitals to sve money and loer taxes. -snip snip- Because I knew people in the business at the time(aides, orderlies, not shrinks) this was actually in the 1960s: https://study.com/academy/lesson/dei...th-issues.html You may dislike Mr. Reagan, and you're welcome to your opinion, but facts are stubborn things. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#23
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My Bike Path in the News
On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:48:40 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
About 40% of homeless men are veterans (compared to about 34% of the male population being veterans) I'd have to see some data, statistics, facts to believe this. Serving in the military is NOT common. Not one third common. Amongst my biking friends, few to almost none served in the military. In my family my Dad and most of my uncles served in the military. But none since the 60-80 year olds have served. I'd guess the percentage of US male population serving/served in the military at 10%. For 40% of homeless men being veterans, that I believe. Its the 34% of US male population being veterans that is unbelievable. |
#25
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My Bike Path in the News
On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 13:53:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:48:40 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote: About 40% of homeless men are veterans (compared to about 34% of the male population being veterans) I'd have to see some data, statistics, facts to believe this. Serving in the military is NOT common. Not one third common. Amongst my biking friends, few to almost none served in the military. In my family my Dad and most of my uncles served in the military. But none since the 60-80 year olds have served. I'd guess the percentage of US male population serving/served in the military at 10%. For 40% of homeless men being veterans, that I believe. Its the 34% of US male population being veterans that is unbelievable. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-the-military/ As of Jan. 31, there were close to 1.4 million people serving in the U.S. armed forces, according to the latest numbers from the Defense Manpower Data Center, a body of the Department of Defense. That means that 0.4 percent of the American population is active military personnel. According to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) useing their own data as well as numbers from the Department of Defense, the U.S. Census Bureau, the Internal Revenue Service and the Social Security Administration. As of 2014, the VA estimates there were 22 million military veterans in the U.S. population. If you add their figures on veterans to the active personnel numbers mentioned above, 7.3 percent of all living Americans have served in the military at some point in their lives. However these numbrs seem a bit flexible. See: https://www.census.gov/population/ww...ry-Service.pdf https://www.infoplease.com/american-veterans-numbers |
#26
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My Bike Path in the News
On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:50:27 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2018 1:37 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm. Lawn order is the solution? During today's ride a woman was blocking my side of a bike path with her overflowing shopping car. She was constantly screaming at herself. It's sad, she was a beautiful younger woman but totally wasted. Probably another OD case. If she was an OD case she'd have been unconscious. More likely this person has schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, a brain injury or bipolar disorder. Us well-to-do folks tend to assume that "if you're homeless" or "if you're poor," it's your own damn fault and you should pull yourself up by your effin' bootstraps and stop bothering me. But of the estimated 500,000 - 600,000 homeless people in the US, a bit under half have a serious and persistent mental illness. How'd that happen? A big contributor was the Reagan Administration which pushed for closing mental health hospitals to sve money and loer taxes. -snip snip- Because I knew people in the business at the time(aides, orderlies, not shrinks) this was actually in the 1960s: https://study.com/academy/lesson/dei...th-issues.html You may dislike Mr. Reagan, and you're welcome to your opinion, but facts are stubborn things. Perhaps it applies to Governor Reagan, although the real explosion of crazies on the street of California was in the early to mid '70s during the first Brown administration. Closing down mental hospitals was promoted by liberals and conservatives, and the effects kept me plenty busy as an ambulance driver in SJ during the mid '70s. I question whether policy choices made 40 years ago can explain the explosion of mentally ill homeless people in Portland in the last 15 years. Something else is going on. -- Jay Beattie. |
#27
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My Bike Path in the News
On 7/29/2018 5:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:50:27 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 7/29/2018 1:37 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm. Lawn order is the solution? During today's ride a woman was blocking my side of a bike path with her overflowing shopping car. She was constantly screaming at herself. It's sad, she was a beautiful younger woman but totally wasted. Probably another OD case. If she was an OD case she'd have been unconscious. More likely this person has schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, a brain injury or bipolar disorder. Us well-to-do folks tend to assume that "if you're homeless" or "if you're poor," it's your own damn fault and you should pull yourself up by your effin' bootstraps and stop bothering me. But of the estimated 500,000 - 600,000 homeless people in the US, a bit under half have a serious and persistent mental illness. How'd that happen? A big contributor was the Reagan Administration which pushed for closing mental health hospitals to sve money and loer taxes. -snip snip- Because I knew people in the business at the time(aides, orderlies, not shrinks) this was actually in the 1960s: https://study.com/academy/lesson/dei...th-issues.html You may dislike Mr. Reagan, and you're welcome to your opinion, but facts are stubborn things. Perhaps it applies to Governor Reagan, although the real explosion of crazies on the street of California was in the early to mid '70s during the first Brown administration. Closing down mental hospitals was promoted by liberals and conservatives, and the effects kept me plenty busy as an ambulance driver in SJ during the mid '70s. I question whether policy choices made 40 years ago can explain the explosion of mentally ill homeless people in Portland in the last 15 years. Something else is going on. I don't know but since that trope popped up in conversation a lot recently I tried to find out. References at NPR, Mother Jones and such specifically naming the Reagan administration mostly center on Mr Carter's one-year 'Community Mental Health' initiative which Mr Reagan did cancel. That's not 'locked wards', mind you. Speaking of ancient history, the 1960s was an era in which abuses at mental wards were popularized (from The Snake Pit to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and beyond) and the standard Soviet solution to difficult citizens (curmudgeons and dissenters like me, actually) was mental wards. The rediscovery of individual rights, even so far as 'Tune in, turn on, drop out', also helped end involuntary commitment for the bulk of lunatics. I think most people can see both sides of these arguments now. Looking back of course is not the same as being in the moment. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#28
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My Bike Path in the News
On 7/29/2018 7:21 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2018 5:31 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 1:50:27 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 7/29/2018 1:37 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm.Â* Lawn order is the solution? During today's ride a woman was blocking my side of a bike path with her overflowing shopping car. She was constantly screaming at herself. It's sad, she was a beautiful younger woman but totally wasted. Probably another OD case. If she was an OD case she'd have been unconscious.Â* More likely this person has schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, a brain injury or bipolar disorder.Â* Us well-to-do folks tend to assume that "if you're homeless" or "if you're poor," it's your own damn fault and you should pull yourself up by your effin' bootstraps and stop bothering me.Â* But of the estimated 500,000 - 600,000 homeless people in the US, a bit under half have a serious and persistent mental illness. How'd that happen?Â* A big contributor was the Reagan Administration which pushed for closing mental health hospitals to sve money and loer taxes. -snip snip- Because I knew people in the business at the time(aides, orderlies, not shrinks) this was actually in the 1960s: https://study.com/academy/lesson/dei...th-issues.html You may dislike Mr. Reagan, and you're welcome to your opinion, but facts are stubborn things. Perhaps it applies to Governor Reagan, although the real explosion of crazies on the street of California was in the early to mid '70s during the first Brown administration. Closing down mental hospitals was promoted by liberals and conservatives, and the effects kept me plenty busy as an ambulance driver in SJ during the mid '70s. I question whether policy choices made 40 years ago can explain the explosion of mentally ill homeless people in Portland in the last 15 years. Something else is going on. I don't know but since that trope popped up in conversation a lot recently I tried to find out.Â* References at NPR, Mother Jones and such specifically naming the Reagan administration mostly center on Mr Carter's one-year 'Community Mental Health' initiative which Mr Reagan did cancel. That's not 'locked wards', mind you. Speaking of ancient history, the 1960s was an era in which abuses at mental wards were popularized (from The Snake Pit to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and beyond) and the standard Soviet solution to difficult citizens (curmudgeons and dissenters like me, actually) was mental wards. The rediscovery of individual rights, even so far as 'Tune in, turn on, drop out', also helped end involuntary commitment for the bulk of lunatics. I think most people can see both sides of these arguments now.Â* Looking back of course is not the same as being in the moment. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the root causes of the homeless boom. But I think I know enough to say that simplistic Joergian solutions are unlikely to be effective. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#29
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My Bike Path in the News
On 2018-07-29 11:37, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm. Lawn order is the solution? To a large extent, yes. Blocking a traffic pathway without a permit is illegal and a bike path is a traffic pathway. Many people who travel there have said that New York is now remarkably clean in most parts because NYPD started to take a hard stance on this issue. Needless to say there is a lot of caterwauling about that from the usual suspects but it seems to work. Sacramento is almost the opposite. They have a mayor who promises to throw lots of money at homelessness, lots of free stuff and whatnot. A short time later he was publicly "wondering" about the fast rise in homeless population. Duh! As a cyclist I could have told him why but I am rather sure he wouln't listen. The number of homeless in the Placerville area east of Sacramento that we encounter on the El Dorado Trail bike path has seriously dropped. Guess why ... It's not just people with mental problems. In left-leaning states such as California there is also the myriad rules and costs to developers of housing. The result is that we now have many places where $1000/mo in rent will not even get you a toilet with a bunk bed in there. Therefore, a lot of people fall off the financial cliff. After some couch-surfing they live in their car. Until they lose the car, then they are on the street. During today's ride a woman was blocking my side of a bike path with her overflowing shopping car. She was constantly screaming at herself. It's sad, she was a beautiful younger woman but totally wasted. Probably another OD case. If she was an OD case she'd have been unconscious. More likely this person has schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, a brain injury or bipolar disorder. Us well-to-do folks tend to assume that "if you're homeless" or "if you're poor," it's your own damn fault and you should pull yourself up by your effin' bootstraps and stop bothering me. But of the estimated 500,000 - 600,000 homeless people in the US, a bit under half have a serious and persistent mental illness. Yes, that is also what a friend told me who is a seasoned former police chief. The question is, how did they get to that point? How'd that happen? A big contributor was the Reagan Administration which pushed for closing mental health hospitals to sve money and loer taxes. The theory was that there would be community menal heath centers created to care for those folks, but those were basically not funded so they don't exist to the degree necessary to address the problem. The result was a gigantic influx of mentally ill people onto America's street corners. Had the community end of the plan been effectively organized, the problems would have still been bad but less bad. If that were truly the case we'd have had these masses of homeless people already since the Reagan days. However, we didn't. Even 10-20 years ago we didn't. You could walk along the American River Bike Path and not see a single homeless camp. Now they are everywhere, to the point where many cyclists and joggers consider part of that trail inside Sacramento no longer safe to use and avoid it. Unless people can be adjudicated a danger to self or others by a judge based on evidence, there is no way to force these folks to have treatment to control their mental illness- any more than a cancer patient can be forced to have chemotherapy and surgery. Individual rights pertain to them as well as everyone else. Unfortunately their mental illnesses result in poor insight, judgment, reasoning and decision making. That's all ok, they have the same rights as we do. However, they also have the same obligations as we do such as not trashing public space or making it unusable. On top of that, there are simply not enough mental health providers and that is a situation that is worsening. Some 60% of psychiatrists are pushing 65, there is already a significant shortage of them and we are not training nearly enough new psychiatrists to replace them. My clinic has five providers over 80 who are still working because they enjoy it but also because they feel an ethical obligation to continue to help. We have 20-some providers over 70 for the same reasons. More than half of our providers are over 50. The situation is the same in mental health clinics across the country. From 1995-2014, the number of physicians in the US increased by 45%. The number of psychiatrists increased by 12%. The population of the country rose 35%. Considering the known prevalences of various mental illness in the population, the number of people with those illness increased greatly. A fair number of those people will be met by the rest of us on street corners, acting odd and panhandling and makiung us uncomfortable. Our typical reaction is, as noted in this thread, disgust and resentment. We need to look at the root cause and not at curing the effects and symptoms later. I strongly believe the root cause in the US is the haphazard way we look at drug use. Declaring marijuana legal as just happened in California is _not_ the way to go about it because that leads to stronger and stronger drugs. Until ultimately you see what I saw many times on bike paths. Shopping carts full of stuff trashed onto the pavement and when circling the bike around the trash heap you see all sorts of bad stuff, including used syringes. On a longhaul bike path something almost miraculous happened today. A homelesss guy on a bike came from the other direction, big plastic bag on top of his handlebar. On such lonely stretches of pavement I usually greet other riders. Homeless hardly ever react but this guy enthusiastically wished me a good day. Couldn't believe it. There is hope for this guy. So the key to success in life is "be nice to Joerg." Good to know. No, all I am saying is that if a person has or retains the ability to be nice to other people they have a good chance of turning their misery around. Like this guy did who was on our local TV yesterday: https://nypost.com/2018/07/28/homele...of-job-offers/ Decency goes a long ways and that applies to every person, including the homeless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#30
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My Bike Path in the News
On 30/07/2018 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-29 11:37, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 16:37:22 -0700, Joerg wrote: Disgusting. You may need more conservative city leader who don't let things deteriorate that far. Hmm.Â* Lawn order is the solution? To a large extent, yes. Blocking a traffic pathway without a permit is illegal and a bike path is a traffic pathway. Many people who travel there have said that New York is now remarkably clean in most parts because NYPD started to take a hard stance on this issue. Needless to say there is a lot of caterwauling about that from the usual suspects but it seems to work. Sacramento is almost the opposite. They have a mayor who promises to throw lots of money at homelessness, lots of free stuff and whatnot. A short time later he was publicly "wondering" about the fast rise in homeless population. Duh! As a cyclist I could have told him why but I am rather sure he wouln't listen. The number of homeless in the Placerville area east of Sacramento that we encounter on the El Dorado Trail bike path has seriously dropped. Guess why ... It's not just people with mental problems. In left-leaning states such as California there is also the myriad rules and costs to developers of housing. The result is that we now have many places where $1000/mo in rent will not even get you a toilet with a bunk bed in there. Therefore, a lot of people fall off the financial cliff. After some couch-surfing they live in their car. Until they lose the car, then they are on the street. Left leaning? Last time I was in New Orleans I was shocked by the number of tent farms under the overpasses. Louisiana has been bible thumping conservative since the Dixiecrats in the 70s. |
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