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Flat repair



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 10th 18, 07:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Flat repair

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 7:39:02 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-10 05:12, Andy wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 1:14:13 AM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.

Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?

I found a small copper wire in tire.

Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?

Thanks


What is a good quality tire liner?


I found Mr.Tuffy liners to be quite good. Stay away from cheap thin and
lightweight stuff.

I never ride without them. I also have thorn-resistant tubes in both
bikes (yes, also the road bike). In the MTB tires the liner is
additionally covered by a non-inflated slit regular tube to prevent
chafing. All this increased the weight of each bike by a few pounds but
not having flats is so worth it. Didn't have a flat in years and I ride
through some nasty turf which includes lots of these thorns:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...idum_seeds.jpg

In observance of Murphy's law they usually lay on the ground with the
long protrusion pointing upwards.


I have been experimenting with tubeless tires. Unless you slice these things wide open they don't get flats. You might want to change from Gatorskins to Michelin Power Endurance which have a bead to bead belt.
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  #12  
Old August 10th 18, 07:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Flat repair

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 8:11:54 AM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-5, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
:On 8/10/2018 1:14 AM, Andy wrote:
: I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.
:
: Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?
:
: I found a small copper wire in tire.
:
: Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?
:
: Thanks
:

:Pathing covered in images 4 through 8 he
:http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

I will strongly suggest you sand your tubes. Sanding not only cleans
the surface, it roughens the surface and increases the area that glue
and cushion gum on the patch have to bond to. Done right, there's a
30 or 40% increase in tensile strength of the patch.

:If you find a way to escape flat tires do write back.


I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour..


All it takes is to apply the glue onto the airless tube sanded area and peal the patch onto it after the shine has disappeared from the glue and simply rub it down with your fingers against a flat surface. Clamping it does no better. What's more, now you can even buy glueless patches. Let all the air out of the tube, sand around the leak and apply the patch directly, rub it down well and insert the tube in the tire and inflate.

The problem most people have is finding the hole after they sand the area. I usually use a pen to make a large X so I can determine the center of the leak.
  #13  
Old August 10th 18, 07:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Flat repair

On 2018-08-10 11:18, wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 7:39:02 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-10 05:12, Andy wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 1:14:13 AM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.

Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?

I found a small copper wire in tire.

Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?

Thanks

What is a good quality tire liner?


I found Mr.Tuffy liners to be quite good. Stay away from cheap thin
and lightweight stuff.

I never ride without them. I also have thorn-resistant tubes in
both bikes (yes, also the road bike). In the MTB tires the liner
is additionally covered by a non-inflated slit regular tube to
prevent chafing. All this increased the weight of each bike by a
few pounds but not having flats is so worth it. Didn't have a flat
in years and I ride through some nasty turf which includes lots of
these thorns:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...idum_seeds.jpg



In observance of Murphy's law they usually lay on the ground with the
long protrusion pointing upwards.


I have been experimenting with tubeless tires. Unless you slice these
things wide open they don't get flats.



If a Goat's head thorn goes in and then falls off again they will leak.


... You might want to change from
Gatorskins to Michelin Power Endurance which have a bead to bead
belt.


Amazon wants 50 bucks for those which I consider a bit much for a
bicycle tire. I gave up on Gatorskins a long time ago because of
excessive side wall failure. The sub-$20 class only lasts 1000-1500mi
but on a per mile basis still costs less, plus better side walls, no
more blow-outs.

Now that I have a lot of patch kits from you I never need them anymore :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #14  
Old August 10th 18, 08:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Flat repair

Andy wrote:
:On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-5, David Scheidt wrote:
: AMuzi wrote:
: :On 8/10/2018 1:14 AM, Andy wrote:
: : I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.
: :
: : Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?
: :
: : I found a small copper wire in tire.
: :
: : Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?
: :
: : Thanks
: :
:
: :Pathing covered in images 4 through 8 he
: :http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html
:
: I will strongly suggest you sand your tubes. Sanding not only cleans
: the surface, it roughens the surface and increases the area that glue
: and cushion gum on the patch have to bond to. Done right, there's a
: 30 or 40% increase in tensile strength of the patch.
:
: :If you find a way to escape flat tires do write back.

:I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour.

Did you let the glue dry? the hexane (or whatever they use these
days) is just a solvent. the active part of the glue is the rubber
and vulcanizing activator. then put the
patch on, and press firm (the edge of a patch kit box works great.).
Then put the tube to use.

--
sig 125
  #15  
Old August 10th 18, 08:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Flat repair

On 8/10/2018 9:02 AM, Andy wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 7:47:58 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2018 1:14 AM, Andy wrote:
I had to repair a flat. Have some questions.

Is it best to apply patch to a completly flat tube?

I found a small copper wire in tire.

Is there something to minimize what can puncture tire?

Thanks


Pathing covered in images 4 through 8 he
http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

If you find a way to escape flat tires do write back.


One way is to not ride. :-)


One thing that helps is to ride away from the gutter. If you ride on the
section of road that's routinely contacted by car tires, you'll find
it's swept clean of most debris.

Lots of glass shards, wire bits etc. get tossed out of that area toward
the far right, where most cyclists like to ride.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old August 10th 18, 08:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Flat repair

On 8/10/2018 3:09 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Andy wrote:

:I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour.

Did you let the glue dry? the hexane (or whatever they use these
days) is just a solvent. the active part of the glue is the rubber
and vulcanizing activator. then put the
patch on, and press firm (the edge of a patch kit box works great.).
Then put the tube to use.


Here's my method:

First, I seldom patch a tube at the side of the road. Instead I just
change tubes, using the spare tube I always have with the bike. I do
check carefully by feel and visually to be sure the glass, wire or
whatever is not still sticking into the tire. Oh, and I make sure the
punctured tube is tossed sloppily into my handlebar bag so I don't
forget to deal with it at home.

At home, I inflate the tube and find the leak, making sure there isn't
more than one. I mark its position X with chalk.

I clamp a thick dowel (3/4" diameter or so) so it's protruding from my
bench vise. This is my work surface. I lay the X directly on top.

I take my sanding block (used for wood work) and sand the area to be
patched. It's way easier than fiddling with the tiny sandpaper in a
patch kit, and the dowel work surface makes it easy to sand well.

I apply the patch glue, spreading it thin, then wait maybe five minutes
for it to dry.

I peel the backing foil off the patch and carefully stick it in place.

Then I take another dowel, hold it right angles to the one in the vise,
and roll it over the patch to apply pressure, starting in the patch's
center and working toward the outside. It's like rolling cookie dough -
although I've never rolled cookie dough. This makes it easy to apply
quite a bit of force on a small area (the contact point between two
perpendicular cylinders) and I think helps make the bond very strong.

Then I make sure all the air is out of the tube so it's completely flat.
I fold it up, put a rubber band around it and put it back in my bike bag.

For me, the main thing is it's a lot easier to do this in my basement
where I have all the tools immediately ready. And the dowel in the vise
really is a much easier work surface than a flat surface.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old August 10th 18, 11:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Flat repair

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 12:33:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/10/2018 3:09 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Andy wrote:

:I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour.

Did you let the glue dry? the hexane (or whatever they use these
days) is just a solvent. the active part of the glue is the rubber
and vulcanizing activator. then put the
patch on, and press firm (the edge of a patch kit box works great.).
Then put the tube to use.


Here's my method:

First, I seldom patch a tube at the side of the road. Instead I just
change tubes, using the spare tube I always have with the bike. I do
check carefully by feel and visually to be sure the glass, wire or
whatever is not still sticking into the tire. Oh, and I make sure the
punctured tube is tossed sloppily into my handlebar bag so I don't
forget to deal with it at home.

At home, I inflate the tube and find the leak, making sure there isn't
more than one. I mark its position X with chalk.

I clamp a thick dowel (3/4" diameter or so) so it's protruding from my
bench vise. This is my work surface. I lay the X directly on top.

I take my sanding block (used for wood work) and sand the area to be
patched. It's way easier than fiddling with the tiny sandpaper in a
patch kit, and the dowel work surface makes it easy to sand well.

I apply the patch glue, spreading it thin, then wait maybe five minutes
for it to dry.

I peel the backing foil off the patch and carefully stick it in place.

Then I take another dowel, hold it right angles to the one in the vise,
and roll it over the patch to apply pressure, starting in the patch's
center and working toward the outside. It's like rolling cookie dough -
although I've never rolled cookie dough. This makes it easy to apply
quite a bit of force on a small area (the contact point between two
perpendicular cylinders) and I think helps make the bond very strong.

Then I make sure all the air is out of the tube so it's completely flat.
I fold it up, put a rubber band around it and put it back in my bike bag.

For me, the main thing is it's a lot easier to do this in my basement
where I have all the tools immediately ready. And the dowel in the vise
really is a much easier work surface than a flat surface.


Here's my technique -- carry a couple of spares and have boat loads of patched and new tubes at home. Get numerous flats and accumulate a pile of un-repaired tubes. Then, (1) select proper beer; go to man cave and (2) select proper DVD and or BluRay movie, (3) start patching. I use a Sharpie to mark, and I just lay the tube flat and sand. You can apply glue to two or three at a time, depending on chair-back hanging space. Number one dries as you're spreading glue on three, etc. Apply patches like you say, but I just put the tube back on flat surface (I use a plastic cutting board) and press down with plastic tire iron. You could use your finger nail. When the pile is done, I pump them all up and let them sit overnight. There are always two or three that go flat because of super small holes, and then I get out the bucket of water and do those, and then I roll them all up like you say.

Sanding is the important part, IMO. Some tube brands have really nasty mold release or some other finish that you have to get through for a good bond..

I have a patch limit where I just throw the tube away. Nothing set. If I say, "man there are a lot of patches on that tube," then I just throw it away. I've gotten my money out of it. I'll keep patching if it has sentimental value or its some weird size that I need.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #18  
Old August 11th 18, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 12:33:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/10/2018 3:09 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Andy wrote:

:I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour.

Did you let the glue dry? the hexane (or whatever they use these
days) is just a solvent. the active part of the glue is the rubber
and vulcanizing activator. then put the
patch on, and press firm (the edge of a patch kit box works great.).
Then put the tube to use.


Here's my method:

First, I seldom patch a tube at the side of the road. Instead I just
change tubes, using the spare tube I always have with the bike. I do
check carefully by feel and visually to be sure the glass, wire or
whatever is not still sticking into the tire. Oh, and I make sure the
punctured tube is tossed sloppily into my handlebar bag so I don't
forget to deal with it at home.

At home, I inflate the tube and find the leak, making sure there isn't
more than one. I mark its position X with chalk.

I clamp a thick dowel (3/4" diameter or so) so it's protruding from my
bench vise. This is my work surface. I lay the X directly on top.

I take my sanding block (used for wood work) and sand the area to be
patched. It's way easier than fiddling with the tiny sandpaper in a
patch kit, and the dowel work surface makes it easy to sand well.

I apply the patch glue, spreading it thin, then wait maybe five minutes
for it to dry.

I peel the backing foil off the patch and carefully stick it in place.

Then I take another dowel, hold it right angles to the one in the vise,
and roll it over the patch to apply pressure, starting in the patch's
center and working toward the outside. It's like rolling cookie dough -
although I've never rolled cookie dough. This makes it easy to apply
quite a bit of force on a small area (the contact point between two
perpendicular cylinders) and I think helps make the bond very strong.

Then I make sure all the air is out of the tube so it's completely flat.
I fold it up, put a rubber band around it and put it back in my bike bag.

For me, the main thing is it's a lot easier to do this in my basement
where I have all the tools immediately ready. And the dowel in the vise
really is a much easier work surface than a flat surface.


Here's my technique -- carry a couple of spares and have boat loads of patched and new tubes at home. Get numerous flats and accumulate a pile of un-repaired tubes. Then, (1) select proper beer; go to man cave and (2) select proper DVD and or BluRay movie, (3) start patching. I use a Sharpie to mark, and I just lay the tube flat and sand. You can apply glue to two or three at a time, depending on chair-back hanging space. Number one dries as you're spreading glue on three, etc. Apply patches like you say, but I just put the tube back on flat surface (I use a plastic cutting board) and press down with plastic tire iron. You could use your finger nail. When the pile is done, I pump them all up and let them sit overnight. There are always two or three that go flat because of super small holes, and then I get out the bucket of water and do those, and then I roll them all up like you say.

Sanding is the important part, IMO. Some tube brands have really nasty mold release or some other finish that you have to get through for a good bond.

I have a patch limit where I just throw the tube away. Nothing set. If I say, "man there are a lot of patches on that tube," then I just throw it away. I've gotten my money out of it. I'll keep patching if it has sentimental value or its some weird size that I need.

-- Jay Beattie.



A while ago I believe that we discussed patching tubes in detail. At
the time I think I remember someone writing that they simply wiped the
tube off with some chemical and slapped on the patch. No sanding.

I remember thinking that I should "get some of that stuff" but like
many plans it came a crupper and I even forgot the incident until this
thread started.

Anyone remember the details and did the scheme actually work. I hate
sanding tubes and would gladly go to some lengths to avoid it.
  #19  
Old August 11th 18, 01:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Flat repair

On 8/10/2018 7:07 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 12:33:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/10/2018 3:09 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Andy wrote:

:I sanded the tube, applied the patch and clamped it in a vise for an hour.

Did you let the glue dry? the hexane (or whatever they use these
days) is just a solvent. the active part of the glue is the rubber
and vulcanizing activator. then put the
patch on, and press firm (the edge of a patch kit box works great.).
Then put the tube to use.

Here's my method:

First, I seldom patch a tube at the side of the road. Instead I just
change tubes, using the spare tube I always have with the bike. I do
check carefully by feel and visually to be sure the glass, wire or
whatever is not still sticking into the tire. Oh, and I make sure the
punctured tube is tossed sloppily into my handlebar bag so I don't
forget to deal with it at home.

At home, I inflate the tube and find the leak, making sure there isn't
more than one. I mark its position X with chalk.

I clamp a thick dowel (3/4" diameter or so) so it's protruding from my
bench vise. This is my work surface. I lay the X directly on top.

I take my sanding block (used for wood work) and sand the area to be
patched. It's way easier than fiddling with the tiny sandpaper in a
patch kit, and the dowel work surface makes it easy to sand well.

I apply the patch glue, spreading it thin, then wait maybe five minutes
for it to dry.

I peel the backing foil off the patch and carefully stick it in place.

Then I take another dowel, hold it right angles to the one in the vise,
and roll it over the patch to apply pressure, starting in the patch's
center and working toward the outside. It's like rolling cookie dough -
although I've never rolled cookie dough. This makes it easy to apply
quite a bit of force on a small area (the contact point between two
perpendicular cylinders) and I think helps make the bond very strong.

Then I make sure all the air is out of the tube so it's completely flat.
I fold it up, put a rubber band around it and put it back in my bike bag.

For me, the main thing is it's a lot easier to do this in my basement
where I have all the tools immediately ready. And the dowel in the vise
really is a much easier work surface than a flat surface.


Here's my technique -- carry a couple of spares and have boat loads of patched and new tubes at home. Get numerous flats and accumulate a pile of un-repaired tubes. Then, (1) select proper beer; go to man cave and (2) select proper DVD and or BluRay movie, (3) start patching. I use a Sharpie to mark, and I just lay the tube flat and sand. You can apply glue to two or three at a time, depending on chair-back hanging space. Number one dries as you're spreading glue on three, etc. Apply patches like you say, but I just put the tube back on flat surface (I use a plastic cutting board) and press down with plastic tire iron. You could use your finger nail. When the pile is done, I pump them all up and let them sit overnight. There are always two or three that go flat because of super small holes, and then I get out the bucket of water and do those, and then I roll them all up like you say.

Sanding is the important part, IMO. Some tube brands have really nasty mold release or some other finish that you have to get through for a good bond.

I have a patch limit where I just throw the tube away. Nothing set. If I say, "man there are a lot of patches on that tube," then I just throw it away. I've gotten my money out of it. I'll keep patching if it has sentimental value or its some weird size that I need.

-- Jay Beattie.



A while ago I believe that we discussed patching tubes in detail. At
the time I think I remember someone writing that they simply wiped the
tube off with some chemical and slapped on the patch. No sanding.

I remember thinking that I should "get some of that stuff" but like
many plans it came a crupper and I even forgot the incident until this
thread started.

Anyone remember the details and did the scheme actually work. I hate
sanding tubes and would gladly go to some lengths to avoid it.


I remember the previous discussion, but I don't remember the solvent.

But I, too, hated sanding tubes until I started using the dowel in a
vise as a work surface, and the carpentry sanding block as a tool. It
makes it much easier.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old August 11th 18, 01:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Flat repair

On 8/10/2018 5:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 12:33:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/10/2018 3:09 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Andy wrote:


-snip snip-

I'll keep patching if it has sentimental value or its some
weird size that I need.

-- Jay Beattie.


Huh.
I thought I was as maladjusted and psychologically damaged
as anyone on RBT, but I can't say I ever felt sentiment for
a tube. YMMV of course.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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