#1
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claims.....
http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html
The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). |
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#2
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sal bass wrote:
http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). Report back in a 10-12 years and we'll see if any of that pans out. By then my nice old wheels will have passed through many more tires, still on the same old spokes and rims. . . -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#3
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On Feb 22, 11:02 pm, "sal bass" wrote:
http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). Yep, and in 3 years, these hubs/wheels, IF the company is still around, will have changed making this version obsolete, with NO replacement rims, the thing that DOES wear out. Great idea, another somebody trying to reinvent the wheel. |
#4
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ups.com... On Feb 22, 11:02 pm, "sal bass" wrote: http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). Yep, and in 3 years, these hubs/wheels, IF the company is still around, will have changed making this version obsolete, with NO replacement rims, the thing that DOES wear out. Great idea, another somebody trying to reinvent the wheel. Looked at their web page, and wasn't clear on some things. Where does the spoke wrench contact the spoke? At the rim end, or the hub end? If the whole spoke rotates as the wheel is trued, why don't some of the spokes orient across the direction of travel? Thanks, Kerry |
#5
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"sal bass" wrote in message s.com... http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull pucky. Chas. |
#6
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On 2007-02-24, * * Chas wrote:
[...] As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull pucky. I thought that, but wondered if what they're saying is this: (1) aluminium has a higher modulus than steel, (2) therefore the load is distributed between more spokes, therefore the fatigue cycle on each spoke is lighter. I don't know if (1) is true or that (2) necessarily follows from (1). |
#7
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"Ben C" wrote in message ... On 2007-02-24, * * Chas wrote: [...] As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull pucky. I thought that, but wondered if what they're saying is this: (1) aluminium has a higher modulus than steel, (2) therefore the load is distributed between more spokes, therefore the fatigue cycle on each spoke is lighter. I don't know if (1) is true or that (2) necessarily follows from (1). Elastic Modulus: 2024-T3 Aluminum 7.310E+10 Pa 6061-T6 Aluminum 7.310E+10 Pa 7079-T6 Aluminum 7.172E+10 Pa AISI C1020 Steel 2.034E+11 Pa or Youngs Modulus Aluminum 69 Steel 200 http://www.mse.cornell.edu/courses/engri111/modulus.htm |
#8
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* * Chas wrote:
"sal bass" wrote in message s.com... http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there has not been a stripped thread on a hub. Here is an excerpt that explains it well: "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke. First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress failure. Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom of the thread's "V") is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke, just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional bending forces. " As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull pucky. Chas. if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes, you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker. whether they're thick enough to compensate is hard to tell from the pics, but the cross section would need to be roughly 3 times the area to compensate. that's about a 3.5mm spoke vs a 2.0mm spoke. and they're straight pull, not elbowed - right there is going to be fatigue advantage. if you want to criticize these wheels for something, do it for the aluminum freehub body. anyone that's seen a mangled aluminum chris king hub body and noticed that shimano won't use them unless it's deep spline, has got to figure that there may be a problem with that... |
#9
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On 2007-02-25, jim beam wrote:
* * Chas wrote: "sal bass" wrote in message s.com... http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html [...] As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a steel spoke). The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull pucky. Chas. if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes, you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker. They don't say that though, in the quote at the top, which does make it grade A bull pucky. |
#10
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On 2007-02-25, jim beam wrote:
* * Chas wrote: "sal bass" wrote in message s.com... [...] "By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined 7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB spoke available. [...] if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes, you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker. whether they're thick enough to compensate is hard to tell from the pics, but the cross section would need to be roughly 3 times the area to compensate. They say above that it's 20-25% larger. As you say (and as the figures for Young's Modulus of 69 and 200 provided by * * Chas also say) it would need to be 300% larger to be as stiff as steel. Could it really be as strong as a steel spoke with only a 25% larger cross-sectional area? |
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