Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2017 12:02 PM, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 6:04:58 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/27/2017 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 08:06:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 1:24:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:37:00 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Joerg writes:

On 2017-10-24 17:21, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:47:12 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

[ ... ]

The reason can be summed up in one word: Rain :-)

But last Sunday I started out my "weekend" ride in the rain. It
had
been raining nearly all night and the roads had a lot of water
on them
- note we have been having floods here in Bangkok lately - but it
appeared that the rain was ending so off I went.

Unfortunately my weather forecasting facility wasn't working
very well
and I rode 20 Km of a 30 Km ride in light rain and flooded
roads in
many places. I was splashing through water in some places and cars
were splashing through (and splashing me) in others.

Of course, Sunday is much lighter traffic then on work days but
still,
Bangkok is rated as one of the cities with the most chaotic
traffic
in the world, and I did have to stop suddenly several time, on
flooded
roads with wet wheels and brakes.

My brakes worked just as they do in the dry. Back brake stops me
somewhat slowly and front brake stops rather suddenly, both brakes
together provides best stopping. No long wait after grabbing a
brake
lever although I did think of you with your stopping problems
and I
have the feeling that the brake lever pressure might be a tiny bit
more to stop in the rain but if it was it was so little that it
couldn't be quantified.

But of course I am using quality brake pads. Why it costs me
US$12.12
a wheel just for pads alone.... but they do last a year or more.


It seems Californian rain and Thai rain aren't the same. When it
rains
heavily and I have to do a surprise emergency stop after not having
used the brakes for a while there is 1-2sec of nada, absolutely
nothing. It makes no difference whatsoever whether I use $17
high-falutin Koolstop rain-rated pads or $4 Clarks pads. The
experience of other riders around here and in this NG is similar.

I don't understand the difference myself. When it's really raining,
meaning there's a continuous film of water on the road and a rooster
tail shooting forward off the front tire, I ride like a little
old lady,
because of the delay in braking. Especially when it's dark, and
leaves
and other blown down crap cover the road.

I suspect that may be the secret. I've never been "doored", perhaps
because if I have to ride past a line of parked cars where a door
might be opened I either slow down or ride further enough away that a
door wouldn't hit me.

Here the bike lane can be so narrow that the car door on a two-door
totally covers the lane and there's no place to dodge because
passing cars will spot that and not let you out.

If the choice is to run into a car door or be run over by a car then I
think I'd get off and walk.

In practice, at least in my experience, the actual choice is between the
_risk_ of getting hit by an opening door, and the _risk_ of a
motorist
deliberately running me over from behind.

In my experience, the latter risk is almost zero. Consider, we're almost
certainly talking about a place where there are witnesses, because the
situation requires people parking, getting out of their cars, opposing
traffic that would prevent the guy behind from changing lanes, etc.
There just aren't that many psychopaths who would risk prison terms by
deliberately running you over, especially because it would slow them
down.

On the other hand, the person doing the dooring doesn't have to be a
psychopath. He just has to be inattentive. There are lots and lots of
those people.

Now, for corroboration: I have definitely had situations where a door
popped open, and I would have been doored if I had been riding within
reach. But while I've occasionally (but rarely) had motorists honk or
yell when I claim a lane, I've never had one run me over.

And let's remember that dooring can be fatal. If the door snags your
right handlebar, the bike whips to the right and you are instantaneously
thrown to the left, directly into the path of the cars you were so
worried about.

Where would these witnesses come from? The cars that simply continued
driving?

I don't know, Tom, but let me repeat: I've had some motorists act
displeased when I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me
over. I've never known another cyclist who had that happen.


I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They survived but
one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured spleen. Then there was
the woman here who got rear-ended in the right lane at high speed. Died.
Numerous others down in the valley, including an off-duty police officer
who was catapulted off his road bike and died.


It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up.


Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2

A bike lane plus segregated bike path plus bicycle bridge, all
seamlessly connecting to the Folsom bike path system and the American
River bike trail. Plus a lot of parks. That area is a cyclists paradise.
During rush hour it gets quite busy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

See above. And it better rain hard soon because my black/salmon
Koolstops are very close to worn down and I certainly will not replace
them with new Koolstops. They wanted $17/pair for the MTB version last
time I looked. Not going to happen. IME Clarks work just as well, last
as long and cost only $4/pair.

We'll wait. Post the pic.

John B. writes:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 17:08:10 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 5:22:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:47:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


[ ... ]


The reason can be summed up in one word: Rain :-)

But last Sunday I started out my "weekend" ride in the rain. It had
been raining nearly all night and the roads had a lot of water on them
- note we have been having floods here in Bangkok lately - but it
appeared that the rain was ending so off I went.

Unfortunately my weather forecasting facility wasn't working very well
and I rode 20 Km of a 30 Km ride in light rain and flooded roads in
many places. I was splashing through water in some places and cars
were splashing through (and splashing me) in others.

Of course, Sunday is much lighter traffic then on work days but still,
Bangkok is rated as one of the cities with the most chaotic traffic
in the world, and I did have to stop suddenly several time, on flooded
roads with wet wheels and brakes.

My brakes worked just as they do in the dry. Back brake stops me
somewhat slowly and front brake stops rather suddenly, both brakes
together provides best stopping. No long wait after grabbing a brake
lever although I did think of you with your stopping problems and I
have the feeling that the brake lever pressure might be a tiny bit
more to stop in the rain but if it was it was so little that it
couldn't be quantified.

But of course I am using quality brake pads. Why it costs me US$12.12
a wheel just for pads alone.... but they do last a year or more.

This is something I just can't understand. Indeed there is a
millisecond or two delay for the brake shoe to excise the water
directly in front of the initial application of the brake but after
the brake shoe touches the rim it pushes any water in the way off
without floating the shoe above it.

I see no reason whatsoever for disk brakes and their complications
even on most MTB's since a good V-Brake is longer lasting, just as
effective, cheaper and doesn't require special wheels and frame and
fork changes.

If you ride a lot in the rain and use a rim brake, you might go
through a front rim every 1-2 years -- at least based on the
experience of one of my commuter cohorts who just switched to discs.

And the slowly dying rims generate some really messy black sludge, at
least in my experience. I'm not sure why the "wax your chain to stay
clean" cohort hasn't noticed.

It is probably heresy to mention it, but some people wash their bikes,
particularly after riding in the rain. Amazing how easily all that
black sludge washes off with soap and water :-)

I was thinking particularly of an incident of a few years ago. I rode
80 miles from my house to a b & b on the Quabbin reservoir in central
Mass., to go see the reservoir, and one of the ghost towns that was not
completely drowned. As it happened, it rained all day. When I got
there, the landlady was visibly peeved, because I was somewhat later
than I had planned, on account of farting around in the morning thinking
the rain might stop, and of riding like a little old lady.

I suppose I should have called her, but I didn't even think of it.

She said, "Where's your bicycle? You can bring it right it." So I did,
and we watched it drip nasty black aluminum sludge on the floor as she
chatted me up. Good times.

--

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, October 29, 2017 at 8:47:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:59:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/29/2017 10:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-28 17:18, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 08:09:28 -0700, Joerg


Well, since you mentioned it. My two grandfathers, neither of whom
ever had a road accident. One died at 92 and the other at 87. My
father never had a road accident although he did get a speeding ticket
once, died at 87. My mother had one "accident", a guy ran a red light
and tee-boned her car, no speeding tickets, died at 86. All deaths
were considered "natural".

Do you really believe that safety belts would have benefited them?


Counting on luck alone is not smart. The father of a friend's wife died
from the consequences of a minor fender bender at an intersection
because he didn't wear a belt. That accident was 100% survivable. Or
would have been ...

I'd be interested to see the difference in one's lifetime odds of dying
in a traffic crash wearing seatbelts vs. not wearing them. I suspect the
difference isn't tremendous, since most people die of other things anyway.

Having said that: I do buckle up each time I ride or drive. That's
mostly because there is some benefit, and zero detriment.

However, I willingly ride in my friend's Model A that has no belts. When
our daughter got married, they rode from the wedding to the reception in
an elegant antique car with no belts, and nobody worried about the
possible tragedy of a wedding day fatality.

And if I, as a passenger, have to take my seatbelt off to reach
something in the back seat, remove a jacket or whatever, I don't hesitate.

One of the problems is that there are significant differences between
age groups and even sex. Women driver have about 1 fatality per 9,328
licensed female drivers. Males have 1/3847. I'm sure that teenage
drives are even higher. I also suspect that the driver of a 1927 Model
A probably worries a lot about anyone even getting close to his
fenders :-)

I've also wondered what the effect of overall insurance coverage is.
Here, if you ding someone's fender you park, call the insurance
company and they send a guy out on a motorcycle. The insurance guy
checks the policies, checks the vehicle identification and that is it.
The guy with the ding takes his car to the shop and they fix it and
send the bill to the insurance company.

You rarely have to worry someone is actually going to run you over. After all if might get blood on their car that they'd have to wash off. But the continuous threats are tiring. When I get back from a long city ride - say my home down to Palo Alto along Hesperian then back again - some 50 miles - I will be threatened at least two dozen times with cars trying to nudge me off the road. Even with open lanes they could easily pass in. Another thing is that you will be riding along and a car will come up behind you fast, swerve around you and turn directly into a driveway that causes you to slam on the brakes. Usually a store or something.

I can only say that the U.S. must be different. I've ridden in Japan,
Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand and have never, repeat
NEVER, had anyone threaten me, either by word or action. I also rode
in New Hampshire and Southern California, but that was a long time ago
and I can't be sure but I certainly don't remember any acts that were
threatening.

If the police were to ticket these people the state would never again have to raise taxes. And it would have the side effect of increasing road safety. But the drivers would not stand for it.

Locally one of the people who was caught by a red light camera wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper. He was outraged that they were using cameras to record miscreants. There were a dozen follow-ups by others agreeing with him and not ONE comment to the contrary.

Yet another indication of the change in the U.S. attitude toward law
and order. As I wrote before, in years gone by if a guy got caught
speeding he'd say something like, "Damn! I got caught. Got to go pay
the fine Monday." Now you get a tirade like "Jeeze Cri! I was only
doing 15 mph over the limit, and school was already out. Why is that
cop picking on me?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:42:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-29 18:02, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 07:59:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-28 17:18, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 08:09:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-27 17:11, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 06:58:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-27 01:11, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 07:53:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-24 17:21, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:47:12 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-24 07:27, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:19:48 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:09:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:48:29 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 20:51:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:02:08 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But re disc brake cooling F1 car brakes appear to work with
the discs red hot. In the 1,000 degree (F) range. And they
use Carbon Fiber discs too :-) And everyone knows that CF
is better.

"Thermal Conductivity of Carbon Fiber, and other Carbon
Based Materials"
http://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conductivity.html


"So...Is Carbon Fiber a good heat conductor?
As usual the answer is "it depends." The short answer is NO
not when regular carbon fiber is made up in regular epoxy and
expected to conduct heat across the thickness. IF a highly
carbonized pan fiber with graphite or diamond added, is
measured for heat transmission in the length of the fiber it
is very good and can rival and exceed copper."

On the other hand, they seem to work pretty well :-) See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5JcHAEmIYM for a visual
indication of heat dissipation. :-)

Impressive. I'll assume it's a carbon-carbon rotor, since all F1
cars seem to using them.

Undoubtedly so. But if the advantage of "carbon" bikes can be
extolled that a carbon-carbon frame must have twice the bragging
rights :-)


http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/f1-2014-explained-brake-systems/


(4 pages)
"A typical road car uses a cast iron brake disc with an organic
brake pad. In an F1 car, though, the same material is used for
both disc and pad, and this material is known as carbon-carbon -
a significantly different material to the carbon-fibre
composites used in the rest of the car" In other words, the F1
brakes are NOT made from CF.

Some detail on Formula 1 brakes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6XTdlKElw

Fun destroying brakes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KslGsXMgmqg The brake starting
at 4:45 sure looks like CF but I'm not sure.

Maybe twin disk brakes would be easier?
http://nuovafaor.it//public/prodotto/75/nccrop/DOPPIO_FRENO_CROSS_ENDURO.jpg


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pvwj-WWlKkg/maxresdefault.jpg
https://gzmyu4ma9b-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Gatorbrake-dual-hydraulic-front-disc-brakes-carbon-rotors01.jpg


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cDfAFWrGR6Q/VHKPsm-f6YI/AAAAAAAAX10/2FCyj87xs0g/s640/14%2520-%25201.jpg
https://www.minibikecraze.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/bs0978.jpg
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56268

Given the coefficient of friction between a 1.25" wide rubber tire
(32mm) and a wet road probably dragging the feet will work. :-)

Joerg's experience is with full suspension MTB's. These things are
incredibly heavy and long wheelbased. He has his judgement of disks
and it is no doubt quite accurate for his experience and riding.

I have disks on a much lighter and shorter wheelbased bike. I know
the failings up close and personal. I simply cannot imagine WHY a
person would want a more complicated system than that offered by the
Campy Skeleton brakes.


The reason can be summed up in one word: Rain :-)

But last Sunday I started out my "weekend" ride in the rain. It had
been raining nearly all night and the roads had a lot of water on them
- note we have been having floods here in Bangkok lately - but it
appeared that the rain was ending so off I went.

Unfortunately my weather forecasting facility wasn't working very well
and I rode 20 Km of a 30 Km ride in light rain and flooded roads in
many places. I was splashing through water in some places and cars
were splashing through (and splashing me) in others.

Of course, Sunday is much lighter traffic then on work days but still,
Bangkok is rated as one of the cities with the most chaotic traffic
in the world, and I did have to stop suddenly several time, on flooded
roads with wet wheels and brakes.

My brakes worked just as they do in the dry. Back brake stops me
somewhat slowly and front brake stops rather suddenly, both brakes
together provides best stopping. No long wait after grabbing a brake
lever although I did think of you with your stopping problems and I
have the feeling that the brake lever pressure might be a tiny bit
more to stop in the rain but if it was it was so little that it
couldn't be quantified.

But of course I am using quality brake pads. Why it costs me US$12.12
a wheel just for pads alone.... but they do last a year or more.


It seems Californian rain and Thai rain aren't the same. When it rains
heavily and I have to do a surprise emergency stop after not having used
the brakes for a while there is 1-2sec of nada, absolutely nothing. It
makes no difference whatsoever whether I use $17 high-falutin Koolstop
rain-rated pads or $4 Clarks pads. The experience of other riders around
here and in this NG is similar.

Which, to be honest, I find a little mystifying as I've had pretty
constant success with conventional brakes.

Frankly, I can't believe this is solely because I'm somehow so
uniquely skilled or that y'all are all in the awkward squad

I do see a number of people here and many who are not here who seem to
have ridden for years using conventional brakes without complaint and
some of the blogs I read don't even talk about brakes. Dave Moulton,
for example. An old fellow, used to race bikes, came to the U.S. in
about 1979 and built frames commercially for years, now retired, has
one entry in his blog about brakes - "centering side pull brakes".

Another blog from the long distance side of the bicycleing world, The
Blayleys, who are into Audex's and who apparently each ride in the
neighborhood of 10,000 miles annually, mentions Vee brakes in
reference to a Tandem while a photo of them on a tandem on their web
page shows disc brakes. On the other hand, when she discusses a "good
brevet bike she simply says that the "brakes must clear the fenders
and probably long reach caliper brakes will suffice".

In short, it seems that brakes just don't seem to be a hot subject in
much of the cycling fraternity.


To a large part that is because most cyclist will not ride in driving
rain. Some do and those know exactly how that delay with rim brakes
feels. Occasionally it is called "free fall" because that's how it feels
like.

Well, the Blayleys state that the husband, John, has ridden 10 - 17
thousand miles a year for the past 25 years and the wife, Pamela, has
ridden from 10 - 14 thousand miles a year for the past 20 years, or
another way to put it might be that together they have ridden from 20
- 30 thousand miles a year for the past 20 years.

Somehow I suspect that they may have encountered rain in that period.


And grandpa has driven his cars without safety belts yet survived ...


Well, since you mentioned it. My two grandfathers, neither of whom
ever had a road accident. One died at 92 and the other at 87. My
father never had a road accident although he did get a speeding ticket
once, died at 87. My mother had one "accident", a guy ran a red light
and tee-boned her car, no speeding tickets, died at 86. All deaths
were considered "natural".

Do you really believe that safety belts would have benefited them?


Counting on luck alone is not smart. The father of a friend's wife died
from the consequences of a minor fender bender at an intersection
because he didn't wear a belt. That accident was 100% survivable. Or
would have been ...

So one of your friends died in a traffic accident and four of my
ancestors never had an accident at all. Thus safety belts are a good
idea?


Yes, they are. Ask any ER doctor who is old enough to remember the days
before safety belts and before motorcycle helmets. The folks who do or
did emergency surgery on traffic accident victims. My wife used to work
there so we know.

I think I'd also have to ask, "how many if these people were in
violation of the traffic code when they were injured?"

I was thinking back over the motorcyclists I've known who were injured
riding their bikes and every one was violating the traffic code.

I have to wonder, if rather then a seat belt law they had made a "obey
the law" law what would have been the outcome?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/30/2017 10:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You rarely have to worry someone is actually going to run you over. After all if might get blood on their car that they'd have to wash off. But the continuous threats are tiring. When I get back from a long city ride - say my home down to Palo Alto along Hesperian then back again - some 50 miles - I will be threatened at least two dozen times with cars trying to nudge me off the road. Even with open lanes they could easily pass in. Another thing is that you will be riding along and a car will come up behind you fast, swerve around you and turn directly into a driveway that causes you to slam on the brakes. Usually a store or something.

I can only say that the U.S. must be different. I've ridden in Japan,
Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand and have never, repeat
NEVER, had anyone threaten me, either by word or action. I also rode
in New Hampshire and Southern California, but that was a long time ago
and I can't be sure but I certainly don't remember any acts that were
threatening.

I can only say that other parts of the U.S. must be different, because
what Tom describes almost never happens to me. Although my "other parts
of the U.S." statement needs some modification, since I've ridden all
the way across it, and ridden at least a little in 47 states so far.

The last irritating incident that happened to me was three weeks ago, on
a 50+ mile ride. Ohio has a new law requiring three feet passing
clearance. One car passed closer than that when there was plenty of room
to go around. But as someone said, I probably shouldn't attribute to
malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

If the police were to ticket these people the state would never again have to raise taxes. And it would have the side effect of increasing road safety. But the drivers would not stand for it.

Locally one of the people who was caught by a red light camera wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper. He was outraged that they were using cameras to record miscreants. There were a dozen follow-ups by others agreeing with him and not ONE comment to the contrary.

In our area, the camera issue was speeding, not red lights. Yes, there
were online complaints about the fact that the cops were giving tickets
for being 13 mph over the 50 mph limit on the city-center freeway. But
here, to counter the over-privileged bitching, there were several
individuals posting "Don't be stupid, just drive slower." I was one of
those. I mentioned that the time saved by speeding had to be less than
three minutes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/30/2017 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... let me repeat: I've had some motorists act
displeased when I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me
over. I've never known another cyclist who had that happen.

I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They survived but
one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured spleen. Then there was
the woman here who got rear-ended in the right lane at high speed. Died.
Numerous others down in the valley, including an off-duty police officer
who was catapulted off his road bike and died.

And I can double check my list, but I think it's now up to nine friends
who were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Zero on bicycles. We can
trade anecdotes (and you frequently do) but I give more credence to
unbiased data.

It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up.


Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2

Here's why I "take the risk," Joerg. First, the risk of being hit while
riding lane center is extremely low. Most of those hit that way seem to
be unlit cyclists riding at night, probably drunk or nearly so. Data's a
bit soft, but that does seem to be what it shows.

But more important: If I waited for "alternatives" such as the one you
show to be built, I would have missed about 45 years of enthusiastic
adult riding. I'd have missed riding in about a dozen different
countries, 47 states and hundreds of different towns and cities. I
wouldn't have been able to ride my bike to work at four different jobs.
I'd have missed wonderful vacations with my family, and I'd have missed
making at least a hundred good cycling friends.

I know many people have bought the "Danger! Danger!" mantra and never
leave the nice, safe (and horridly boring) bike path. I chose instead to
learn to be competent on ordinary roads. And I'm damned glad I did.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 07:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Riding in one of the crew busses at the mine I don't remember the jake
brake being excessively loud, and as the alternate on most of that
road was "straight down a thousand feet" probably wouldn't have minded
anyway.

When you're trying to sleep or study, any loud noise is too loud.

"Jake brake contest 2014 (Full)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHTrEwRk0MU

The winner delivered about 130dB SPL which is what a jet taking off
produces at 100 meters:
http://personal.cityu.edu.hk/~bsapplec/Fire/SPL01.jpg
http://elephanttech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/decibel-levels-ear-plugs.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 22:52:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/30/2017 10:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You rarely have to worry someone is actually going to run you over. After all if might get blood on their car that they'd have to wash off. But the continuous threats are tiring. When I get back from a long city ride - say my home down to Palo Alto along Hesperian then back again - some 50 miles - I will be threatened at least two dozen times with cars trying to nudge me off the road. Even with open lanes they could easily pass in. Another thing is that you will be riding along and a car will come up behind you fast, swerve around you and turn directly into a driveway that causes you to slam on the brakes. Usually a store or something.

I can only say that the U.S. must be different. I've ridden in Japan,
Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand and have never, repeat
NEVER, had anyone threaten me, either by word or action. I also rode
in New Hampshire and Southern California, but that was a long time ago
and I can't be sure but I certainly don't remember any acts that were
threatening.

I can only say that other parts of the U.S. must be different, because
what Tom describes almost never happens to me. Although my "other parts
of the U.S." statement needs some modification, since I've ridden all
the way across it, and ridden at least a little in 47 states so far.

The last irritating incident that happened to me was three weeks ago, on
a 50+ mile ride. Ohio has a new law requiring three feet passing
clearance. One car passed closer than that when there was plenty of room
to go around. But as someone said, I probably shouldn't attribute to
malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

If the police were to ticket these people the state would never again have to raise taxes. And it would have the side effect of increasing road safety. But the drivers would not stand for it.

Locally one of the people who was caught by a red light camera wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper. He was outraged that they were using cameras to record miscreants. There were a dozen follow-ups by others agreeing with him and not ONE comment to the contrary.

In our area, the camera issue was speeding, not red lights. Yes, there
were online complaints about the fact that the cops were giving tickets
for being 13 mph over the 50 mph limit on the city-center freeway. But
here, to counter the over-privileged bitching, there were several
individuals posting "Don't be stupid, just drive slower." I was one of
those. I mentioned that the time saved by speeding had to be less than
three minutes.

In W. Australia, and probably the rest of the country, they had "speed
Cameras" which were mounted on portable tripods along roads ranging
from city streets to "way out in the country". I was told by my mate,
who's daughter was employed by the Perth Police in a clerical
position, that these cameras communicated with the police in some
manner and transmitted data on speeding cars which the police computer
turned into a speeding ticket which was mailed to your house.

The attitude seemed to be "stay under the speed limit" rather then
"I'm being persecuted".

But the U.S. attitude, which admittedly I only see posted in Internet
articles, about some sort of leeway on obeying laws seems odd. If it
is O.K. to drive 15 mph over the posted limit then why a lower posted
limit. Why not simply a posted 65 mph limit?

One wonders, is it O.K. to steal if it is only a little? Or even
commit murder... in a small way?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:28:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 07:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Riding in one of the crew busses at the mine I don't remember the jake
brake being excessively loud, and as the alternate on most of that
road was "straight down a thousand feet" probably wouldn't have minded
anyway.

When you're trying to sleep or study, any loud noise is too loud.

On the other hand is the alternate is a 1,000 ft drop off the side of
the mountain it has a sort of comforting sound :-)


"Jake brake contest 2014 (Full)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHTrEwRk0MU

The winner delivered about 130dB SPL which is what a jet taking off
produces at 100 meters:
http://personal.cityu.edu.hk/~bsapplec/Fire/SPL01.jpg
http://elephanttech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/decibel-levels-erar-plugs.jpg

Don't get too carried away with those decibel charts. The sound of a
jet engine at full throttle is very noticeably different depending on
where you are standing. In an engine test cell where you can walk
around the running engine standing a distance in front of the engine
results in very much lower sound levels then standing the same
distance behind the engine.

--
Cheers,

John B.