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#282
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 1:57:15 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2017 3:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. Delta maybe but not the classic forged-arm sidepull. Well adjusted, they had good stopping power -- particularly the short reach.. I used standard reach NR side-pulls on my touring bike all the way across the US and on many tours. Great stopping even fully loaded -- using some of the Scott-Mathauser brake pads. The cooling fins made me go faster. -- Jay Beattie. |
#283
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 6:08 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 10/31/2017 4:36 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 8:27:04 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/31/2017 10:29 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 10/30/2017 10:37 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 22:52:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/30/2017 10:04 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote: You rarely have to worry someone is actually going to run you over. After all if might get blood on their car that they'd have to wash off. But the continuous threats are tiring. When I get back from a long city ride - say my home down to Palo Alto along Hesperian then back again - some 50 miles - I will be threatened at least two dozen times with cars trying to nudge me off the road. Even with open lanes they could easily pass in. Another thing is that you will be riding along and a car will come up behind you fast, swerve around you and turn directly into a driveway that causes you to slam on the brakes. Usually a store or something. I can only say that the U.S. must be different. I've ridden in Japan, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand and have never, repeat NEVER, had anyone threaten me, either by word or action. I also rode in New Hampshire and Southern California, but that was a long time ago and I can't be sure but I certainly don't remember any acts that were threatening. I can only say that other parts of the U.S. must be different, because what Tom describes almost never happens to me. Although my "other parts of the U.S." statement needs some modification, since I've ridden all the way across it, and ridden at least a little in 47 states so far. |
#284
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On 2017-11-01 13:32, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-31 07:27, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 3:53:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: [...] It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up. Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this? https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2 A bike lane plus segregated bike path plus bicycle bridge, all seamlessly connecting to the Folsom bike path system and the American River bike trail. Plus a lot of parks. That area is a cyclists paradise. During rush hour it gets quite busy. So what you're saying is that the percentage of bicyclists deaths can be changed from nearly nothing to nothing? It isn't nothing. About one a month in our local paper. However, again, this is not only about deaths but also serious injury. I personally knew people who have had that happen, usually by being hit from behind. One woman wasn't able to ride for years because she ended up underneath a Ford F-150. Later she never regained her old performance level because some stuff didn't heal. I'm certainly not saying that injuries aren't serious. Apparently the pain I presently have in my right arm was caused by that crash I had in July. It didn't bother me until maybe a month ago. Now I have to go through physical therapy to try and quell the pain in my shoulder from a torn ligament. These sorts of things will always be around. The safest you can ever hope to be is 100 times less safe than you would like to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWsSB9QGkY It is somewhat strange to me that no one seems to know why brakes react the way they do. "disk brakes have more modulation". Well that's because a rim brake has more leverage. There is a wider distance between application of the disk brake and the full lock position. I don't have any trouble with brake cables or quick releases making noises. I don't either and I am happy with the modulation of rims as well as disc brakes. Just as the rider in the video say, disc brakes are worth it in area that get a lot of rain. Such as here. Looking at the available disk brake videos I have questions as to the techniques they used to make these tests which showed good rim brakes measurably less effective than disks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWsSB9QGkY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHFSSXOSnxs IME there is only an advantage of disc brakes when it's wet out there. Especially after riding through standing water and then having to stop hard. I was incorrect about increased drag from disks: the difference was too slight to mention. Provided the set-up is done right they don't drag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXQuSnKkS-I My personal experiece with disk brakes is not particularly good. On the heavy Trek HiFi they were very good. On my Redline Cyclocross bike they are all hell and gone too powerful. I installed these when the Shimano cantilever brakes on my Ridley couldn't stop a caterpillar in full flight. Later I installed TRP 9.0 V-brakes on the Ridley and even though the Ridley is a lot heavier than the Redline, the braking was much more predictable and powerful. I've never issues with any brake in good weather. Just serious ones with rim brakes in rain, sleet, snow, mud or after water puddles or creek crossings. With disc brakes I can simply plow through and not worry about a thing. The fact that disc brakes don't eat rims is a definite bonus as well. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#285
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 09:17:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2017 1:46 AM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:26:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 10:17:36 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:23:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: I recently read up on "rolling coal" - that is, using modifications of a pickup truck's diesel engine to purposely shoot dense black clouds of unburned diesel fuel out the exhaust. I'd seen it done many times, but had it done to me (and the folks I was riding with) only once. The comments in the articles were disheartening. I didn't realize that most of the people "rolling coal" are intent specifically on abusing people who choose not to pollute. The comments bragged about taunting Prius drivers, economy car drivers and bicyclists. One source said there are no laws against this practice in other countries, since they're not needed. Nobody else does it; it's just American jerks. Yes, we are not who we were. Generally any diesel will smoke, to some extent, under some operating conditions so I'd guess that no engine modifications would be necessary. This is an order of magnitude worse than "to some extent." For example, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPMbLO4pAY It appears to be the usual diesel smoking on acceleration that all diesel engines do to some extent. It does seem excessive as it is right in your face but we have basically the same thing on some of our older buses. But more to the point, why in the world would anyone be worried about whether someone else was emitting more or less contaminates? You'd worry about the "more contaminants" if you were being forced to breathe it. Gee here is was trying to be politically correct and cover all options and you complain. Why would these jerks care if someone emits less? I think they think that pollution is patriotic. If you can call that thinking. - Frank Krygowski Yes they are "jerks" but I suggest that if there is any thought taking place it is probably "Hey! Look! Look! Everyone! Look at ME!" -- Cheers, John B. Uh, it's an intentional modification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF2zCXAQ3u0 Interesting. I had never owned a truck with a controllable turbo. With an older turbo, or even an un-turbocharged engine, you simply limited the engine rpm's and opened the throttle. My last sail boat that was a bit "over propped" commonly did it maneuvering in close quarters. Boat moving backward, prop in forward limits the engine RPM, opening the throttle simply pours more fuel into the engine which burns with a great deal of black smoke. With my truck it just as easy. Foot on the brake thus limiting engine RPM, other foot on the throttle, press and you increase fuel flow to the engine causing a rich mixture and thus smoke. -- Cheers, John B. |
#286
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 08:54:44 +0700, John B.
wrote: With my truck it just as easy. Foot on the brake thus limiting engine RPM, other foot on the throttle, press and you increase fuel flow to the engine causing a rich mixture and thus smoke. But that involves learning a little something, and thinking about how you drive! -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
#287
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:27:36 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-10-31 07:43, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/30/2017 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: ... let me repeat: I've had some motorists act displeased when I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me over. I've never known another cyclist who had that happen. I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They survived but one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured spleen. Then there was the woman here who got rear-ended in the right lane at high speed. Died. Numerous others down in the valley, including an off-duty police officer who was catapulted off his road bike and died. And I can double check my list, but I think it's now up to nine friends who were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Zero on bicycles. We can trade anecdotes (and you frequently do) but I give more credence to unbiased data. It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up. Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this? https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2 Here's why I "take the risk," Joerg. First, the risk of being hit while riding lane center is extremely low. Most of those hit that way seem to be unlit cyclists riding at night, probably drunk or nearly so. Data's a bit soft, but that does seem to be what it shows. But more important: If I waited for "alternatives" such as the one you show to be built, I would have missed about 45 years of enthusiastic adult riding. I'd have missed riding in about a dozen different countries, 47 states and hundreds of different towns and cities. I wouldn't have been able to ride my bike to work at four different jobs. I'd have missed wonderful vacations with my family, and I'd have missed making at least a hundred good cycling friends. I know many people have bought the "Danger! Danger!" mantra and never leave the nice, safe (and horridly boring) bike path. I chose instead to learn to be competent on ordinary roads. And I'm damned glad I did. We pretty much agree with this. I don't have to worry any more about riding a bike around dangerous drivers than I would driving a car. But that is a clear and present danger because the police no longer enforce driving laws. Yesterday I was driving up the street and some woman pulls a large SUV out of her driveway directly in front of me forcing me to slam the brakes on. It is common for women especially to pull out of parking lots or other driveways looking to the right when traffic comes from the left. With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side, driver backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path, the bus driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane center I'd be in the hospital or morgue today. Luckily I rode AFRAP, the hydraulic brakes of my MTB came on prontissimo and I was able to leave the road without crashing because, well, it was an MTB. Yes, the offending driver was a woman but I've seen guys do that as well. She was visibly shaken by all that. Gee Joerg, you must be riding on very crooked roads. The city streets I ride on are straight enough that I can see, oh probably 50 feet in front of me, and by watching I can see vehicles, way down the road, that might be meaning to drive out into traffic and even braking by dragging your feet lets you slow down enough to avoid them. I think the modern term is "Defensive Driving" and it is usually defined as "Its aim is to reduce the risk of collision by anticipating dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions or the mistakes of others." Of course, the (also modern) street definition is "get your head out of your arse". A bit impolite perhaps... but memorable. -- Cheers, John B. |
#288
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let you ride it off the TUEV test site. But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany. -- Cheers, John B. |
#289
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 4:02:54 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-01 13:00, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/1/2017 3:27 PM, Joerg wrote: With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side, driver backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path, the bus driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane center I'd be in the hospital or morgue today. I don't think I'd have ended up in the hospital just because I rode at lane center. I know about steering a bike. Except when it's too late to get to the side or as in this case off the road. But I know, you are superman and can easily put on a kilowatt or two to do this uphill. I didn't see anything about uphill speed helping to avoid this crash. I have taught, practiced and been tested on bike emergency maneuvers several times. It's something that happens if you take a Cycling Savvy class, for instance. As I've previously described, I've used that once, long ago, to avoid a somewhat similar crash. That one was a sudden left cross. - Frank Krygowski |
#290
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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 2:18:04 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 1:57:15 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 11/1/2017 3:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious cyclists who know this. How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels. Delta maybe but not the classic forged-arm sidepull. Well adjusted, they had good stopping power -- particularly the short reach. I used standard reach NR side-pulls on my touring bike all the way across the US and on many tours. Great stopping even fully loaded -- using some of the Scott-Mathauser brake pads. The cooling fins made me go faster. Four years ago when I was recovering and putting bikes together I had a super record set on a steel bike of some sort and they would bottom out bending the arms. Now they were long arm brakes but they did bottom out. |
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