Bus bike rack too short, how to strap in a bike quickly?

On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with rectangular
ring
might work. They're fast to install and surprisingly strong. See,
for
example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht




Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of course, there
remains the risk that a picky bus driver refuses to accept that
mounting method and we'd be stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should have known it
wouldn't work for you.Â*Â* ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my advice.
"Can you
come over and look at this? You're an engineer."Â* So I'd visit and
hear
"The garage door track is coming loose" or "This table I'm building
has
wobbly legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of my
bike"
or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in "You need
something to resist that bending moment, so if you add a brace
here" or
"... if you screw this in two places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and spout some
nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me about problems
now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I see why that bothers you. What
do you think?" and later "Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer would understand
that plastic buckles will not be adequate for holding a bike wheel _on_
the slot (not _in_ the slot) at freeway speeds and when taking corners
at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so I've
modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've never put them on a
bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by enough
riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the singletrack but
this time I rode with a much slower rider and we would have not made it
back home in time without using the bus for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a small distant
shot of a bike that fits. You said the big clamp bar worked on your rear
wheel, so it's not clear how your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped down
which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we cinched that as
tight as we could.


Â*... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round top tube
of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... If so, it's probably no big deal.
Gravity is holding it down. Straps would mostly be insurance against
jostling. The forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the bike
would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not sufficient.
You've given only your assertion. I don't value your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to me
experience matters the most.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... Andrew
gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack. It's got a plastic
buckle that's worked perfectly with singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust plastic, I'd
substitute a metal loop for the plastic one, either by purchase or by
fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't have time to cut a piece of steel
rod and bend it into a rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than anyone
who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly, doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine with me. Just
remember, they're made of polyester. That's another word for [gasp!]
plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might be
called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps on the
side of the road during my rides where the buckle has snapped. The
buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge masses and
soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral accelerations, so the
accelerations (therefore forces) are small in all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote possibility of
a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html) but
it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job. (Part of the
job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If your bike is outside
the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other people do.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on the
side of the road. That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with your
mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved because you
carried your growler and other weird tales.

I'm beginning to believe you dream all this stuff up while sitting in a
dive bar sloshed on Miller Lite. You sound like a Walter Mitty with home
brewing pretensions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with rectangular
ring
might work. They're fast to install and surprisingly strong. See,
for
example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht




Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of course, there
remains the risk that a picky bus driver refuses to accept that
mounting method and we'd be stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should have known it
wouldn't work for you.Â*Â* ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my advice.
"Can you
come over and look at this? You're an engineer."Â* So I'd visit and
hear
"The garage door track is coming loose" or "This table I'm building
has
wobbly legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of my
bike"
or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in "You need
something to resist that bending moment, so if you add a brace
here" or
"... if you screw this in two places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and spout some
nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me about problems
now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I see why that bothers you. What
do you think?" and later "Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer would understand
that plastic buckles will not be adequate for holding a bike wheel _on_
the slot (not _in_ the slot) at freeway speeds and when taking corners
at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so I've
modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've never put them on a
bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by enough
riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the singletrack but
this time I rode with a much slower rider and we would have not made it
back home in time without using the bus for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a small distant
shot of a bike that fits. You said the big clamp bar worked on your rear
wheel, so it's not clear how your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped down
which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we cinched that as
tight as we could.


Â*... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round top tube
of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... If so, it's probably no big deal.
Gravity is holding it down. Straps would mostly be insurance against
jostling. The forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the bike
would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not sufficient.
You've given only your assertion. I don't value your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to me
experience matters the most.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... Andrew
gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack. It's got a plastic
buckle that's worked perfectly with singles and our tandem since 2004..

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust plastic, I'd
substitute a metal loop for the plastic one, either by purchase or by
fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't have time to cut a piece of steel
rod and bend it into a rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than anyone
who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly, doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine with me. Just
remember, they're made of polyester. That's another word for [gasp!]
plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might be
called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps on the
side of the road during my rides where the buckle has snapped. The
buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge masses and
soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral accelerations, so the
accelerations (therefore forces) are small in all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote possibility of
a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html) but
it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job. (Part of the
job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If your bike is outside
the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other people do.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on the
side of the road. That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with your
mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved because you
carried your growler and other weird tales.

I'm beginning to believe you dream all this stuff up while sitting in a
dive bar sloshed on Miller Lite. You sound like a Walter Mitty with home
brewing pretensions.

Ouch. Who knows, maybe Joerg is one of those guys who finds oodles of road swag. I ride with the guy, an M.D., who finds stuff on every ride. I rode by a really nice short-handle phillips head screw driver yesterday. I left it for the next guy since I already have too many. Maybe Joerg has an eye for broken straps.

We have essentially the same racks in Portland on TriMet buses and probably 100X more bikes than suburban Sacramento, and yet I don't see broken straps, ruined bikes or other rack-related mayhem. Maybe we have more skilled bike loaders. They can practice at various spots in PDX. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avQ6ZHKvNgI

I see lots of cargo bikes, although many have Bosch and other motors and are unlikely to be on the front of a bus, unless they're hit. It's an eye-opener to get passed on a climb by an e-cargo bike. It's like getting passed on a highway by a triple trailer.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 13:44:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with rectangular
ring
might work. They're fast to install and surprisingly strong. See,
for
example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht




Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of course, there
remains the risk that a picky bus driver refuses to accept that
mounting method and we'd be stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should have known it
wouldn't work for you.** ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my advice.
"Can you
come over and look at this? You're an engineer."* So I'd visit and
hear
"The garage door track is coming loose" or "This table I'm building
has
wobbly legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of my
bike"
or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in "You need
something to resist that bending moment, so if you add a brace
here" or
"... if you screw this in two places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and spout some
nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me about problems
now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I see why that bothers you. What
do you think?" and later "Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer would understand
that plastic buckles will not be adequate for holding a bike wheel _on_
the slot (not _in_ the slot) at freeway speeds and when taking corners
at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so I've
modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've never put them on a
bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by enough
riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the singletrack but
this time I rode with a much slower rider and we would have not made it
back home in time without using the bus for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a small distant
shot of a bike that fits. You said the big clamp bar worked on your rear
wheel, so it's not clear how your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped down
which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we cinched that as
tight as we could.


*... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round top tube
of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


**************************** ... If so, it's probably no big deal.
Gravity is holding it down. Straps would mostly be insurance against
jostling. The forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the bike
would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not sufficient.
You've given only your assertion. I don't value your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to me
experience matters the most.


************************************************** *** ... Andrew
gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack. It's got a plastic
buckle that's worked perfectly with singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust plastic, I'd
substitute a metal loop for the plastic one, either by purchase or by
fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't have time to cut a piece of steel
rod and bend it into a rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than anyone
who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly, doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine with me. Just
remember, they're made of polyester. That's another word for [gasp!]
plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might be
called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps on the
side of the road during my rides where the buckle has snapped. The
buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge masses and
soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral accelerations, so the
accelerations (therefore forces) are small in all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote possibility of
a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html) but
it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job. (Part of the
job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If your bike is outside
the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other people do.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on the
side of the road. That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with your
mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved because you
carried your growler and other weird tales.

I'm beginning to believe you dream all this stuff up while sitting in a
dive bar sloshed on Miller Lite. You sound like a Walter Mitty with home
brewing pretensions.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/fantasies
Fantasies are not frivolous. They can be entertaining, distracting,
frightening, even arousing, but they also allow for creativity and
help us plan for the future. As long as we don't mistake fantasies for
reality (as in delusional disorder and schizophrenia), they provide a
necessary escape from the here and now.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/c...ional-disorder
Delusions are fixed beliefs that do not change, even when a person is
presented with conflicting evidence. Delusions are considered
"bizarre" if they are clearly implausible and peers within the same
culture cannot understand them.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/c.../schizophrenia
Schizophrenia is a disabling, chronic, and severe mental illness.
Symptoms include hearing internal voices, having false beliefs,
disorganized thoughts and behavior, being emotionally flat, and having
hallucinations.

On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 1:44:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with rectangular
ring
might work. They're fast to install and surprisingly strong. See,
for
example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht




Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of course, there
remains the risk that a picky bus driver refuses to accept that
mounting method and we'd be stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should have known it
wouldn't work for you.Â*Â* ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my advice.
"Can you
come over and look at this? You're an engineer."Â* So I'd visit and
hear
"The garage door track is coming loose" or "This table I'm building
has
wobbly legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of my
bike"
or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in "You need
something to resist that bending moment, so if you add a brace
here" or
"... if you screw this in two places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and spout some
nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me about problems
now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I see why that bothers you. What
do you think?" and later "Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer would understand
that plastic buckles will not be adequate for holding a bike wheel _on_
the slot (not _in_ the slot) at freeway speeds and when taking corners
at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so I've
modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've never put them on a
bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by enough
riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the singletrack but
this time I rode with a much slower rider and we would have not made it
back home in time without using the bus for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a small distant
shot of a bike that fits. You said the big clamp bar worked on your rear
wheel, so it's not clear how your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped down
which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we cinched that as
tight as we could.


Â*... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round top tube
of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... If so, it's probably no big deal.
Gravity is holding it down. Straps would mostly be insurance against
jostling. The forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the bike
would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not sufficient.
You've given only your assertion. I don't value your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to me
experience matters the most.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... Andrew
gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack. It's got a plastic
buckle that's worked perfectly with singles and our tandem since 2004..

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust plastic, I'd
substitute a metal loop for the plastic one, either by purchase or by
fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't have time to cut a piece of steel
rod and bend it into a rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than anyone
who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly, doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine with me. Just
remember, they're made of polyester. That's another word for [gasp!]
plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might be
called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps on the
side of the road during my rides where the buckle has snapped. The
buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge masses and
soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral accelerations, so the
accelerations (therefore forces) are small in all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote possibility of
a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html) but
it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job. (Part of the
job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If your bike is outside
the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other people do.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on the
side of the road. That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with your
mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved because you
carried your growler and other weird tales.

I'm beginning to believe you dream all this stuff up while sitting in a
dive bar sloshed on Miller Lite. You sound like a Walter Mitty with home
brewing pretensions.

--
- Frank Krygowski

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Perhaps there's little jostling on some buses. However the buses here have quite a jarring ride - so much so that I bring a cushion to sit on if I'm taking the bus for longer than a 20 minutes ride.

Regarding plastic buckle breaking. I've had many a plastic buckle break where the strap goes over the part that allows you to adjust the length of the strap. I've had a few of them break in cold weather. Rather than be inconvenienced by that I decided to go back to using Arno straps and have never had on of them fail in any way even in the dead of winter. YMMV

Cheers

Frank Krygowski writes:

[...]

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on
the side of the road. That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with
your mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved
because you carried your growler and other weird tales.

I have never seen a broken plastic buckle strap on the road. Broken
bungies, on the other hand are everywhere.

--

On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with
rectangular ring might work. They're fast to install
and surprisingly strong. See, for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht






Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of
course, there remains the risk that a picky bus driver
refuses to accept that mounting method and we'd be
stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should
have known it wouldn't work for you. ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my
advice. "Can you come over and look at this? You're an
engineer." So I'd visit and hear "The garage door track
is coming loose" or "This table I'm building has wobbly
legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of
my bike" or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in
"You need something to resist that bending moment, so if
you add a brace here" or "... if you screw this in two
places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and
spout some nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me
about problems now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I
see why that bothers you. What do you think?" and later
"Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer
would understand that plastic buckles will not be adequate
for holding a bike wheel _on_ the slot (not _in_ the slot)
at freeway speeds and when taking corners at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so
I've modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've
never put them on a bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by
enough riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the
singletrack but this time I rode with a much slower rider and we
would have not made it back home in time without using the bus
for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a
small distant shot of a bike that fits. You said the big
clamp bar worked on your rear wheel, so it's not clear how
your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped
down which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we
cinched that as tight as we could.


... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round
top tube of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


... If so, it's probably no big deal. Gravity is holding it
down. Straps would mostly be insurance against jostling. The
forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the
bike would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not
sufficient. You've given only your assertion. I don't value
your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to
me experience matters the most.


... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester. That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces) are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)
but it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.



And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.


... That's a ludicrous fantasy right in line with
your mountain lion attacks, fence nail chain repairs, lives saved
because you carried your growler and other weird tales.


Growlers have never saved lives but they did create times of happiness.


I'm beginning to believe you dream all this stuff up while sitting
in a dive bar sloshed on Miller Lite. You sound like a Walter Mitty
with home brewing pretensions.

Ouch. Who knows, maybe Joerg is one of those guys who finds oodles
of road swag. I ride with the guy, an M.D., who finds stuff on every
ride. I rode by a really nice short-handle phillips head screw
driver yesterday. I left it for the next guy since I already have too
many. Maybe Joerg has an eye for broken straps.


_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds. Except for the Arno straps
I am going to buy. I have over a dozen which covers the various lengths
ever needed so I leave them for the next rider now, like your screw
driver. A sad find was a Leatherman tool where unfortunately a truck had
run over it later and damaged it so badly that I couldn't restore it.


We have essentially the same racks in Portland on TriMet buses and
probably 100X more bikes than suburban Sacramento, and yet I don't
see broken straps, ruined bikes or other rack-related mayhem. Maybe
we have more skilled bike loaders. They can practice at various spots
in PDX. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avQ6ZHKvNgI


Pay attention to where the wheels sit in the slot at 0:53min. This is a
short wheelbase city bike, piece of cake. Now try the same loading
process with a 29er or 27-1/2" that has an L or XL frame. One of the
wheels will ride up on rounded ends of the slot. With a 29er almost all
the way up, meaning one wheel is by defualt out of the slot.


I see lots of cargo bikes, although many have Bosch and other motors
and are unlikely to be on the front of a bus, unless they're hit.
It's an eye-opener to get passed on a climb by an e-cargo bike. It's
like getting passed on a highway by a triple trailer.


One of my riding buddies electrified two of his MTB and has now become
the "stronger" rider. He and I tinker together at times trying to
optimize the set-up. It is amazing how far a pack of around 100 Li-Ion
batteries of the ordinary 18650 size can carry a rider up into the
hills. Another riding buddy who is in his 70's and came with us on
Thursday tried a mile or so on the Turner MTB which has become an an
E-bike. It's like a drug with instant addiction effect and he is now
almost ready to also step over to the dark side.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 28/08/18 00:35, Joerg wrote:
All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

Ditto. I've also got a gallon(?) pickle jar off the various ends from
snagged and broken cords. When I need more, a vist to the camping store
provides the stretch cable to make up desired length & strength.

On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/25/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 11:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-24 10:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:

As to your question: I wonder if a velcro strap with
rectangular ring might work. They're fast to install
and surprisingly strong. See, for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Cabl...g=UTF8&s=a ht







Thanks, but I do not trust plastic for this stuff. The Arno straps
that Sir mentioned seem to be the ticket here. Of
course, there remains the risk that a picky bus driver
refuses to accept that mounting method and we'd be
stranded.

I do have some with steel loops, but that's OK. I should
have known it wouldn't work for you.Â*Â* ;-)

A certain guy I know well once had a habit of asking my
advice. "Can you come over and look at this? You're an
engineer."Â* So I'd visit and hear "The garage door track
is coming loose" or "This table I'm building has wobbly
legs" or "I need a way to carry this bag on the back of
my bike" or a bunch of other things.

In each case, the answer seemed obvious to me - as in
"You need something to resist that bending moment, so if
you add a brace here" or "... if you screw this in two
places..." or whatever.

Invariably, he'd say "That won't work, because..." and
spout some nonsense.

I still see the guy from time to time. When he asks me
about problems now, I usually say things like "Yeah, I
see why that bothers you. What do you think?" and later
"Well, you could try that if you like."


I would have assumed that you as a mechanical engineer
would understand that plastic buckles will not be adequate
for holding a bike wheel _on_ the slot (not _in_ the slot)
at freeway speeds and when taking corners at a good clip.

First, I ride my bikes. Sometimes I carry them on my car, so
I've modified my own racks to work the way I wanted. I've
never put them on a bus rack.


A bus is environmentally more friendly than a car if used by
enough riders. I also always hemmer up to Placerville on the
singletrack but this time I rode with a much slower rider and we
would have not made it back home in time without using the bus
for one trip.


But you've shown no image of your bike on the rack, just a
small distant shot of a bike that fits. You said the big
clamp bar worked on your rear wheel, so it's not clear how
your bike could fall off. ...


Not fall off but shoot out the side. Unless thoroughly strapped
down which is why the bus driver (correctly) insisted that we
cinched that as tight as we could.


... Was your front wheel only partially in the slot?


Yes, like I wrote. It was almost completely riding on the round
top tube of the rack rail (same as in the picture).


... If so, it's probably no big deal. Gravity is holding it
down. Straps would mostly be insurance against jostling. The
forces would be small.


Until the bus driver makes a hard right turn in which case the
bike would have flown out the rack to the left.


You've given me no evidence that a plastic buckle is not
sufficient. You've given only your assertion. I don't value
your assertions.


I do not care whether you value them. I rely on experience and to
me experience matters the most.


... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester. That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces) are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)
but it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.

And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.

Keep digging, Joerg.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2018-08-27 11:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


[...]

... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know, you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester. That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few, what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces) are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)
but it's much more likely because you botched the mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.


Have you not noticed the vastly growing market share of 27-1/2" and 29"
mountain bikes? Seriously? Have you never thought about the fact that in
some areas of the country the MTB is the main kind of bicycle instead of
a road bike?

Wow.


And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.


Baloney. Learn to read more carefully.


Keep digging, Joerg.


No, you just seem to have a tough time understanding. When I find broken
straps with plastic buckles I either kick them to the side of the bike
lane/shoulder or I pick them up to discard them into the next trash bin.
Because I don't want other riders to hit them or animals to swallow that
stuff.

It that so difficult to understand?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 8/27/2018 1:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-27 11:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/27/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-26 12:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 10:44:41 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski
wrote:
On 8/26/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-25 19:25, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:31:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


[...]

... Andrew gave a link to the kind of strap on my
roof rack.
It's got a plastic buckle that's worked perfectly with
singles and our tandem since 2004.

If I wanted to use the design I linked and didn't trust
plastic, I'd substitute a metal loop for the plastic
one,
either by purchase or by fabrication. Yes, I know,
you don't
have time to cut a piece of steel rod and bend it
into a
rectangle, but I would make the time to do that
instead of
type 18 discussion posts about how you're smarter than
anyone who ever designed a bike rack.



Six bucks buys two Arno straps. That makes a
home-build silly,
doesn't it?


But if you want to use Arno straps, that's perfectly
fine
with me. Just remember, they're made of polyester.
That's
another word for [gasp!] plastic.

Apparently plastic buckles are used on quite a few,
what might
be called "important" stuff: see https://bit.ly/2P2s4kf

:-)


I've had too many fail and I routinely see
plastic-buckle straps
on the side of the road during my rides where the
buckle has
snapped. The buckle has to be sturdy metal.

Bull****, Joerg. Use whatever you want, BUT:

The forces are small. It's just jostling, and buses
have huge
masses and soft springs. They don't corner at high lateral
accelerations, so the accelerations (therefore forces)
are small in
all directions.

If a bike did come off, it could be because of the remote
possibility of a broken bus rack (see
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting...racks-wtf.html)

but it's much more likely because you botched the
mounting job.
(Part of the job is to make sure the bus rack isn't
broken.) If
your bike is outside the norm, it's your job to deal
with it. Other
people do.


Nonsense.

OK, it's not your job to deal with it. Instead, society
has to come up
with the funds to re-design all the local bike racks to
fit your bike,
because you're just not clever enough.

Wow.


Have you not noticed the vastly growing market share of
27-1/2" and 29" mountain bikes? Seriously? Have you never
thought about the fact that in some areas of the country the
MTB is the main kind of bicycle instead of a road bike?

Wow.


And don't tell me you routinely see broken plastic
buckle straps on
the side of the road.


Yet that's how it is.

Then it's really hard to explain our extreme shortage of
broken plastic
buckle bike straps on our roads. Someone must ship all of
ours to your
area and distribute them on your roads.

_All_ my loading straps are bike ride finds.

You load stuff on your bikes using straps with plastic
buckles that have
snapped? Remember, that was your claim.


Baloney. Learn to read more carefully.


Keep digging, Joerg.


No, you just seem to have a tough time understanding. When I
find broken straps with plastic buckles I either kick them
to the side of the bike lane/shoulder or I pick them up to
discard them into the next trash bin. Because I don't want
other riders to hit them or animals to swallow that stuff.

It that so difficult to understand?


Oh, sure you're all for more tax dollars to accommodate
white people's various toys but what's the Cameron Park bus
system doing for brown cyclists?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/ICECREAM.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971