A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Mountain Biking
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old August 18th 05, 02:38 PM
Mark Hickey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.

Raptor wrote:

Bill Sornson wrote:
cc wrote:


That's all anyone needs to see or hear. Comparing Hitler's Nazi Jew-killing
thugs to Coalition forces in Iraq.

No wonder you post anonymously...


Compare them to what you wish. Latest news is that the abuse of
prisoners is more widespread than we thought, Abu Graib being just one
example. This is not acceptable. Where is the outrage?


I see plenty of indignation over any legitimate abuse that occurred at
AG. Heck, it was front page on the New York Times for weeks.
Fortunately, those who are responsible are being punished
appropriately - that's how our system works. I should point out that
the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
being stacked naked look like a picnic.

OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.

Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
Ads
  #52  
Old August 18th 05, 04:33 PM
Bill Sornson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.

Mark Hickey wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Bill Sornson wrote:
cc wrote:


That's all anyone needs to see or hear. Comparing Hitler's Nazi
Jew-killing thugs to Coalition forces in Iraq.

No wonder you post anonymously...


Compare them to what you wish. Latest news is that the abuse of
prisoners is more widespread than we thought, Abu Graib being just
one example. This is not acceptable. Where is the outrage?


I see plenty of indignation over any legitimate abuse that occurred at
AG. Heck, it was front page on the New York Times for weeks.
Fortunately, those who are responsible are being punished
appropriately - that's how our system works. I should point out that
the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
being stacked naked look like a picnic.

OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.

Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?


Two words: media bias.

Bill "left out 'blatant'" S.


  #53  
Old August 18th 05, 04:45 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.


Mark Hickey wrote:

I should point out that
the tapes showing Saddam's regime's treatment of prisoners would make
being stacked naked look like a picnic.


We are not defined by what they do. We are defined by our own
principles. If we use your logic, we are allowed to do all sorts of
things, short of hacking their heads off. Rape, torture - it's OK as
long as we don't hack their heads off, right?

But I'm guessing you don't actually believe that.

OTOH, we have terrorists sawing the heads off hostages, others blowing
up women and children... which doesn't seem to produce a whit of
outrage among those complaining the loudest about AG.


That's because they are rightly judging our own by the high standards
we have set for ourselves.

Why do you suppose some are searching so dilligently for any misstep
by the US, and shouting anything they find from the highest rooftop -
all while giving a pass to those who kill innocents by the dozen?


Strawman. Nobody is giving anyone a pass.

I expect barbarians to do barbaric acts. I do not expect Americans to
do barbaric acts. That is why we are different from them. And better.

Their conduct is not the yardstick by which we measure behavior - our
*principles* are the yardstick by which we measure behavior. And when
we violate our own principles, we need to call those who do it on the
carpet.

And keep in mind one thing: the worst of what we do to our prisoners
is the *best* that can be expected if our boys/girls ever get taken
prisoner. So we'd better make sure our worst is principled. Since I
have family members on the ground over there, this is personal for me.

E.P.

  #54  
Old August 18th 05, 04:49 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.


Bill Sornson wrote:
cc wrote:

He sees no difference between "the SS" and US soldiers, so whatever he
writes has zero credibility or weight.

You bias is hanging out; don't trip on it!


Same for you - he didn't say they were the same.

He was drawing a parallel. And the parallel he drew (and not the one
you are assigning) is apt.

Just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean
they actually are doing the right thing.

In Salem, MA, in the 17th century, some town leaders thought they were
doing God's will when they executed some young women who were likely
the victims of grain fungus poisoning. *Thinking* you are doing the
right thing is not the same thing as *doing* the right thing.

Don't let your bias make you lose sight of the real argument.

E.P.

  #55  
Old August 18th 05, 04:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.


Mark Hickey wrote:

The fact remains that the vast majority of statesmanship is done over
the phone.


Yeah, the POTUS telecommutes.

Good one - I'll have to add that to the list of howlers I have going.

E.P.

  #56  
Old August 18th 05, 04:51 PM
BB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:30:57 GMT, Bill Sornson wrote:

The noble cause is millions (MILLIONS) of people freed from oppression and
tyranny.


Ummm...wasn't the war supposed to be removal of WMD?

Not that I ever believed it; about the time this war was started I
mentioned that I suspected this was really about trying to force democracy
into the Middle East, and that it would fail because of the tribal
conflicts that have been going on in Iraq for the past century (or more).
Other problems were forseeable when Rumsfeld decided he knew more about
war than the US Army. It still burns me up that he called the Chief of
Staff's recommendations "ridiculous".

On a "practical" level, transforming Iraq (and Afghanistan) will, if
successful, lessen and perhaps even defeat the forces that create and
foster terrorism in generations to come.


"Practical"? Fanciful, more likely. The current quagmire exists because
Bush wasn't being "practical"; its not as if the current situation was
unexpected. And if he was sending troops there for the "noble cause" of
seeing if we could force democracy into the Middle East, he should have
been honest about it up-front. It was supposed to be about WMDs, you know.

OTOH, those who think that simply pulling out at this point is the
solution need to be realistic as well. Saddam's regime was a government
created by revolution. So was the one before that, and the one before
that. And there is another one going on right now. Leaving a weak
government at this point will very likely result in yet another overthrow,
very likely putting in place (at least temporarily) that ACTIVELY supports
terrorism (as in terrorism outside of Iraq, not terrorism that is part
of a rebellion).

That is the "noble cause" that our kids are dying for. The initial "noble
cause" (WMDs) wasn't all that noble (it was either horrible mismanagement
or a ruse), the resulting "noble cause" (democracy in Iraq) wasn't
particularly noble because its impracticality, but the current "noble
cause" (staving off a new terrort-supporting government) does affect
Americans, and probably Europeans as well.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
  #57  
Old August 18th 05, 04:52 PM
BB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:26:16 -0500, MTBlood wrote:

Holy ****..now I have it..you were reminding me of someone and now I know
who...you're the political version of Vandeman


So does the part about insisting that his opinion means less because he's
using an anonymous username.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address
  #59  
Old August 18th 05, 05:00 PM
JD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I guess that makes three things the guy's done right.


cc wrote:
"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...

gree-c quoted someone else:
"I want him to honor my son by bringing the troops home immediately,"
Sheehan told reporters Saturday.



That quote could only make one wonder if her son would feel honor in
his name being used to desert a mission he sacrificed his life for
before it was completed.


The sacrifice of life does not make it a just mission.



I never said it did.

Many have died for terrible causes.



I never said they haven't.

If our armed forces are a purely volunteer force, why did Casey
volunteer for what some may deem a terribe cause? Does that make those
who have volunteered to serve in our armed forces supporters of what
you see as a terrible cause?

I'm sure some of the families of the SS felt that way too.



Yeah, it was the USA that gassed the Kurds with WMDs, not Saddam and
his henchmen. How does it feel to be safe in your neighborhood
compared to most of the third world toilets on this planet? Why don't
you make yourself some blogspace and rant there. Either that, or go
ride your bike.

JD

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roadside Tour Funny Guys Michael Racing 18 July 7th 04 06:22 PM
Fat guys bike and bike seat. Walter General 95 November 15th 03 05:46 AM
Question for the anti-helmet guys Mike S. Techniques 3 September 29th 03 07:19 AM
Planning on getting my first Unicycle.... what do you guys think of this one?!? CETME Unicycling 6 August 18th 03 09:43 PM
I finally got my Rhoades Car fixed so I can tell you guys how it rides Russell Kanning Recumbent Biking 6 June 30th 03 07:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.