Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)

On 9/9/2019 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.
--
cheers,

John B.


I hate those. They sneak up on a rider while the e-vehicle
pilot is texting in my lane.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/9/2019 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.


Smooth asphalt? I've heard that, in theory, it could be used
as street pavement, just not in the real world.

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/98698/fi...=1392910181000

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...ize=1200%2C630

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/9/2019 9:11 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

My condolences!

(I hate riding in the rain.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:

:Again, it seems different here. I can recall only four or five bike
:fatalities in our area going back 20 years. (Other car-bike crashes
:don't often make the "official" news or the word-of-mouth news.) Such a
:small sample isn't worth much statistically, but:

You should perhaps consier looking things up, rather than pretending
to know them.
https://www.ohiobikelawyer.com/uncat...cling-in-ohio/

Average 17 bicyclists killed a year over the last 25 years, 2200
crashes reported.



--
sig 26

On 9/9/2019 9:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 12:50:34 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/9/2019 12:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 9:12:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

It's interesting to me that you get close passes all the time. I don't.
For me, they are _very_ rare.

Our riding environments differ, of course. But yours is supposed to be
bicycling paradise. Mine is supposed to be nothing special.

Maybe a few times per year, someone will pass close even when I'm at
lane center. In that case, the benefit of being at lane center is: I can
move right if necessary. IME, riding at the edge generates more close
passes, and there's nowhere to go to escape them.

Lots to talk about below. In general, I tell people the bicyclist gets
to make the choice about lane position, so I'm not going to say anyone
was wrong. But there are times I would do it differently - either
further left or further right.

Typical close pass is riding lane center, fast, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNonAs33rQ0

At 0:10 on that bridge, I think I'd have been further right! It looks
like there's enough room to easily share the lane. I see the marker
cones ahead, though, and maybe he was afraid he'd run into them?

Real popular on Skyline, although this video is the suicidal pass versus the close pass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jj9Ok7_Mk

At about 0:50, where the cyclists can see around the bend but the
motorist probably cannot, I'd definitely be in the LEFT tire track, and
waving for the motorists to stay back. Especially the second motorist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENVpi3G0KhM

That guy's almost on top of the white edge line a lot of the time. Nope,
I'm not going to do that.

Because of traffic congestion on HWY 26 and the usual arterials (Burnside), you end up with a lot of people speeding around on the roads through the hills. You'll like this one. He's kind of whiner, but when you're lane center going the speed limit and people are still squeezing by, it does get annoying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_juBzWn3A

The video guy is a wannabee cop - and he'd make a bad cop.

Yes, it may be technically illegal to use part of the center turn lane
when passing a cyclist (actually, Ohio law seems unclear; it's
specifically legal to cross a yellow to pass a bike or other vehicle
going less than half the speed limit) but I normally have no objections
to it. I find those three lane roads pretty pleasant for riding,
precisely because almost all motorists pass that way, giving me plenty
of clearance.

There are places in that video where I'd probably share the lane by
moving right.

About speeding drivers who are otherwise behaving: Sometimes I may shake
my head, but there's no way I get as worked up as the video guy. Geez,
he's setting himself up for a coronary event!

Other close passes are in bike facilities following winding roads when cars wander over. Buses wander into the bike lane on SW Barbur a lot, sometimes when you're next to them. And then they pull over.

I know an avid utility cyclist and cycling advocate who had that happen
to her. She got the bus number and called the transit agency. They
didn't actually apologize, but I bet the bus driver heard about it later.

I'd suspect a letter from a lawyer would raise even more ruckus in the
transit agency.


--
- Frank Krygowski

What do you do if you wave at a motorist to stay back and they don't? Do you maintain your left in the lane position and hope that they see you and that for whatever reason you don't end up with that run down feeling?

I go on high alert in case he swerves right suddenly, or things
otherwise get messy. But it's a rare occurrence. I don't remember the
last time I even needed to change my line for that reason.

One of my wife's only two on-road falls was sort of caused by that. I
was leading a club ride on a narrow, curving highway and a semi truck
pulling a flatbed trailer passed our group on a blind curve. An oncoming
car appeared and the trucker cut back toward the right.

It actually wasn't a problem. I was at the front, and the trailer wasn't
in our lane again until it was past me. I didn't need to move. But
someone behind me freaked out and hit the brakes hard. Several people,
including my wife, had to stop hard because of that. As my wife put it,
she was just congratulating herself on the safe, quick stop when she was
hit from behind by another bicyclist. No injury at all, but it was a
little upsetting.

If everyone had just kept going, as I did, it would have been a non-event.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 6:39:36 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDNETgwyQSI It can be deafening riding near fast traffic on wet pavement.

And for Frank, according to the forecast, it is going to be summer again next week. We're in the oscillating weather time of the year.


-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 20:43:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/9/2019 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.
--
cheers,

John B.


I hate those. They sneak up on a rider while the e-vehicle
pilot is texting in my lane.

Cheer up. Self driven autos are the next innovation. Singapore is
already using self driven busses on some routes.

"But! I wasn't driving, I was texting. The car was driving."
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 21:32:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/9/2019 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.


Smooth asphalt? I've heard that, in theory, it could be used
as street pavement, just not in the real world.


Works pretty well over here where a "cold" day is about 20(C) :-)

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/98698/fi...=1392910181000

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...ize=1200%2C630
--
cheers,

John B.

On 9/9/2019 10:32 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2019 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done
nothing to avoid that.Â* I get close passes all the time, and
again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object
approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat
level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when
you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than
a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to
distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view
mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to
take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been
surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had
been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap.Â* The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather
but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain.Â* The
rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of
tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc.Â* Another fall,
winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.


Smooth asphalt? I've heard that, in theory, it could be used as street
pavement, just not in the real world.

When we ride to get groceries (six miles round trip) we use a
super-quiet route mostly on residential streets.

Yesterday, as soon as we got past the (tiny) Village limits onto
residential roads in the suburban Township, we found every such road had
been completely repaved. That was not just a skim coat; the roads had
been scarfed and given perfect new asphalt coatings. It was a smooth
road paradise.

I'm looking forward to ten years of very pleasant grocery runs.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/9/2019 10:43 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

:Again, it seems different here. I can recall only four or five bike
:fatalities in our area going back 20 years. (Other car-bike crashes
:don't often make the "official" news or the word-of-mouth news.) Such a
:small sample isn't worth much statistically, but:

You should perhaps consier looking things up, rather than pretending
to know them.
https://www.ohiobikelawyer.com/uncat...cling-in-ohio/

Average 17 bicyclists killed a year over the last 25 years, 2200
crashes reported.

I'm very aware of Steve's summary tables and articles. When I said "in
our area" I was speaking of my particular riding area - my county and
the adjacent ones.

I would never try to talk about every crash in the entire state by memory.

--
- Frank Krygowski