SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:10:58 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-07 17:08, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 15:02:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/6/2018 2:49 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


2. It causes oncoming motorists to see the cyclist much earlier and, for
example, if a big semi comes they can pull a bit to the right so the
semi can give the cyclist wide berth.

I do NOT believe any practical light allows a motorist to see a cyclist
_much_ earlier. In almost every case, I've seen on-road cyclists before
I noticed that they had a light. And in no case did I see the light
early enough to make any practical difference. You're fixating on a
superstitious talisman, imagining benefits that don't exist in real life.


I think I've mentioned seeing the bloke on a bike wearing bright
orange knee socks nearly a kilometer away :-) I remember the orange
socks but can't remember whether he had a light on his bike or not :-)


I wonder what the reaction would be if said bloke participated in a
business meeting wearing bright orange knee socks.


He would be noticed earlier. Duh... :-)

Years ago I knew a bloke that had a full beard - this was back in the
days when beards were not commonly worn. I asked him one day why he
wore a beard and he said that he was a salesman and when he made a
return visit to someone's business they might not remember his name
but they certainly remembered "the guy with the beard".

He appeared to be pretty successful so I guess it must have worked :-)
--
Cheers

John B.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:26:05 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-08 16:55, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 4:16:43 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 11:06:53 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-07 17:08, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 15:02:19 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/6/2018 2:49 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


2. It causes oncoming motorists to see the cyclist much
earlier and, for example, if a big semi comes they can
pull a bit to the right so the semi can give the cyclist
wide berth.

I do NOT believe any practical light allows a motorist to
see a cyclist _much_ earlier. In almost every case, I've
seen on-road cyclists before I noticed that they had a
light. And in no case did I see the light early enough to
make any practical difference. You're fixating on a
superstitious talisman, imagining benefits that don't exist
in real life.


I think I've mentioned seeing the bloke on a bike wearing
bright orange knee socks nearly a kilometer away :-) I
remember the orange socks but can't remember whether he had a
light on his bike or not :-)


I wonder what the reaction would be if said bloke participated
in a business meeting wearing bright orange knee socks.

The subject was bicycle visibility, not business meetings....


To me a bicycle is not just a piece of sports equipment but
foremost a transport vehicle.

Wow, that's poignant.


Well, that is how I've always seen bicycles. Over my lifetime about half
the cycling miles were not sports or fun-related. With good lighting I
can make myself very visible to traffic without being dressed like a
macaw parrot. Therefore, I can enjoy almost the same convenience as with
a car. I arrive, I lock the bike, grab whatever I have to carry from the
rack or panniers and I walk in. This is also one of the reasons why my
bikes were immediately equipped with racks and panniers when I got them.
No sweaty back from a backpack in summer.

Besides, most of this "functional clothing" is incompatible with my
body. Gives me rashes or a profuse sweat, neither of which being very
sightly at a client.


... I've been commuting to school or work for 50
years and changing my clothes for the last 40. Even when I was a
substitute teacher, I would ride to school with a backpack and change
when I got there. There is always some place to change.


Sure there is. However, as an engineer who does not work there as an
employee I find it a bit out of place to ask for a room to change. Also,
sometimes you walk in and end up right in the business. "Oh, let me
quickly introduce to Dr.So-and-so here" and then I don't want to stand
there in orange knee socks.

Heck, I even make sure I have enough water for the trip back on the bike
so I don't have to ask if I can refill in their cantina.


... I certainly
wouldn't go to a client meeting in rain drenched or sweat drenched
shirt -- or in shorts. Do you go to client meetings in t-shirts and
shorts?


Depends on which one and what the task at hand is. Like on the two
recent trips. One was with a dress shirt, a fairly new pair of
non-stoned-washed black jeans and nice black jogging shoes. This was to
test one of my designs together with their engineers, a situation where
there could also be witnesses from their customer. Another trip required
me to just pick up some stuff for testing in my lab. There I rode with
T-shirt, shorts and sandals, but all clean and no loud colors.


... but having said that I might comment that it is not difficult
to change socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business
park? I rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility.
Upon arrival I flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

Do you have a side light? I'd worry about that. Pull though an
intersection and "whack." Where was your side light! You really
should have a bright side light.


The rear light does shine to the sides. Also, my parents taught me as a
kid not to blindly pull into intersections just because I have the right
of way. That has saved the bacon numerous times where people completely
missed a red light and blew through at high speed.

Spew from your rear light is not going to cut it. You NEED a dedicated sidelight. Someone I
know who knows someone got killed in an intersection because he/she
didn't have a side light. Everybody around here has one, at least
anyone who is anyone. They are so popular that they are sold out on
Amazon. You are probably the only one without a sidelight.

You also NEED the Garmin radar system. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/518151 People get hit ALL THE TIME from the rear, and you would be a fool not to have radar -- oh yah, its "my granddaddy didn't wear seat belts," so you think it is safe enough because you haven't used radar so far. Well, think again. I use my radar, and I have avoided dozens of rear end collisions. I just know it.

And many drivers are distracted, so you NEED to have a loud horn on your bike. https://www.ebay.com/itm/183139721567 Even cars have horns! You would be crazy not to have a super-loud electronic horn on your bike. If I didn't have my horn, I would have gotten hit five or six times just riding to work this morning. I just know it.

Only fools ride without hi-viz . . . and a safety seat (those pointed noses can emasculate you!). More on my website www.beterrified.com (visit the store).

-- Jay Beattie.

You seem to be forgetting the St. Christopher medallion on the handle
bar, the verse from the Koran decal on the down tube and the Buddhist
amulet attached to the seat post. Gotta keep them all happy to be
safe.
--
Cheers

John B.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but
having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change
socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I
rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I
flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer
away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper
light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on
Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has
such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are
often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have
panniers for their laptops and stuff.

Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights
on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly
noticeable in broad daylight.

The police in Bangkok directing traffic in the early morning use
flashlights which are very visible in the early morning but can hardly
be seen in full daylight.

Even the light from the more powerful light houses (1,000,000 candle
power) isn't visible from any distance in tropical daylight.

I can only assume that your super powerful lights are like a St.
Christopher medal on the handle bars that you "just know" will keep
you safe on your travels.

--
Cheers

John B.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 7:27:47 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

There is also a great danger from large birds. One really should have
an upward shining helmet lamp. I'm a bit ambivalent about snakes, my
present thoughts that one is probably safe from snake bite in a
metropolitan neighborhood.
--
Cheers

John B.

Since you brought up snakes, let me tell you a story. I was riding a 1200km brevet in eastern Colorado back in September 2006. Rode the shoulder of Hwy 36 which parallels I-80. I rode with my head down, because I'm a racer you know. I would see a spot on the shoulder a ways ahead. I'd ride up to it, and it was a coiled up rattlesnake. I would not see it was a rattlesnake until I was right beside it. Front wheel 6 inches beside it. And I would look down and think, that's a rattlesnake. And then I was ten feet up the road, thinking I'm glad it did not strike my leg as I was pedaling by it. This occurred three or four times on that ride. Pretty sure the rattlesnakes were lying on the shoulder for heat absorbing the sunshine and radiant heat from the asphalt. I was not frightened or startled because I did not know it was a rattlesnake until it was too late to even get frightened or startled. Afterwards I would think, that was a rattlesnake. Hmmm. And keep on riding.

When I lived in the Mojave Desert I knew a chap who claimed that a
rattle snake bite caused a flat tire on his pickup - back in the days
when a tire had an inner tube in it. Claimed that one of the fangs was
still in the tire when they took the tire off.
--
Cheers

John B.

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-09 12:59, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/9/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but having said that I might comment that it is not
difficult to change socks, even sitting on the roadside
curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a
business park? I rather flick a little switch and have
instant visibility. Upon arrival I flick it again, visibility
turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a
kilometer away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether
your super-duper light would even be visible (in bright
daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally
happens on Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and
another cyclist has such good lighting. No orange socks. The
riders with good lights are often longhaul bike commuters. They
wear nice shirts, khakis and have panniers for their laptops and
stuff.

So tell us about all the times you hit, or skidded your smoking
tires to avoid, cyclists who were riding legally but without all
the magic talismans you claim necessary.

I know in advance your tales will be imaginary, but your fantasies
are always such fun to read.

And if you're a long haul commuter, you're not wearing a nice shirt
-- unless you're a long haul commuter on an eBike. I ride three miles
cross town on a warm day, and I'll soak through my nice work shirt.
Maybe I could do it in cool weather, but even then, why would I wear
a nice shirt riding a bike? I'm not a missionary, and who wants to
get a nice shirt all stinky or covered in road grime. Even around
here, the street clothes people tend to commute in t-shirts and
change at work (those in my office) -- or work someplace where they
can dress like urchins.


We have an advantage, provided you do not use a road called Hollow Oak
for the way into the valley or at least walk it. Other than Hollow Oak
it's mostly downhill. In the valley all one has to do is ride more
slowly. I know that's hard to do and I sometimes violate that rule when
dressed more nicely. On the way back it's ok to put the hammer down
because the shirt goes into the wash pile. Wear a quality shirt that
doesn't develop salt stains.


https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/...nMxzsKV8Q.jpeg
(commuter traffic on N. Williams). Or they have super-short
commutes.


Here is a speed-clip from the Netherlands so you see lots of commuters.
Our commutes there weren't always short, typically across a whole city
to get to the work place in some business district. I saw people in suit
and tie on their bikes all the time. Also women in heels. Even pastors
in their frocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M

Yah, shoot me. I encounter a version of that riding on the South Waterfront Cycletrack. We're no Utrecht, but the level of bicycle traffic is enough for me.




On my side of town, bike specific clothes are more common, probably
because of the longer commute distances and climbing. During rainy
season, people on both sides of town tend to dress more technically.


In Europe we threw on a rain racket and, if it was really bad, spats
that went all the way up the lower leg (I hated those).


I passed a guy this morning who dressed in Showers Pass garb, top to
bottom. ...


Ah, a lawyer or some other millionaire 8-)

Their coated pants are not horribly expensive. https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...iABEgKcpPD_BwE




... I never wear rain pants. Showers Pass, Rapha USA and
Castelli USA are all in Portland and all of them have killer
warehouse sales, so a lot of people get stuff to dress up. The Rapha
sale is crazy. It's like stuffing a phone booth full of clowns, but
even at half-off, its too rich for me.


Move south, there you rarely need rain clothes. I have a jacket but
can't remember the last time I used it.

Warm is nice, and the Sierra is nice -- but my next move will be to a favorable economic environment for retirees. Washington. Plus, I can keep riding where I like -- https://mikeputnamphoto.com/mpp/wp-c...ver-Gorge1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/65...f45ca1971a.jpg

And all I need to do is wait for the climate to change to get dry weather. As long as it changes in a year that I don't buy a season ski pass. I'm trying to make sure I get it timed just right.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/9/2018 9:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-09 12:59, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/9/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but having said that I might comment that it is not
difficult to change socks, even sitting on the roadside
curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a
business park? I rather flick a little switch and have
instant visibility. Upon arrival I flick it again, visibility
turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a
kilometer away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether
your super-duper light would even be visible (in bright
daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally
happens on Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and
another cyclist has such good lighting. No orange socks. The
riders with good lights are often longhaul bike commuters. They
wear nice shirts, khakis and have panniers for their laptops and
stuff.

So tell us about all the times you hit, or skidded your smoking
tires to avoid, cyclists who were riding legally but without all
the magic talismans you claim necessary.

I know in advance your tales will be imaginary, but your fantasies
are always such fun to read.

And if you're a long haul commuter, you're not wearing a nice shirt
-- unless you're a long haul commuter on an eBike. I ride three miles
cross town on a warm day, and I'll soak through my nice work shirt.
Maybe I could do it in cool weather, but even then, why would I wear
a nice shirt riding a bike? I'm not a missionary, and who wants to
get a nice shirt all stinky or covered in road grime. Even around
here, the street clothes people tend to commute in t-shirts and
change at work (those in my office) -- or work someplace where they
can dress like urchins.


We have an advantage, provided you do not use a road called Hollow Oak
for the way into the valley or at least walk it. Other than Hollow Oak
it's mostly downhill. In the valley all one has to do is ride more
slowly. I know that's hard to do and I sometimes violate that rule when
dressed more nicely. On the way back it's ok to put the hammer down
because the shirt goes into the wash pile. Wear a quality shirt that
doesn't develop salt stains.


https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/...nMxzsKV8Q.jpeg
(commuter traffic on N. Williams). Or they have super-short
commutes.


Here is a speed-clip from the Netherlands so you see lots of commuters.
Our commutes there weren't always short, typically across a whole city
to get to the work place in some business district. I saw people in suit
and tie on their bikes all the time. Also women in heels. Even pastors
in their frocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M

Yah, shoot me. I encounter a version of that riding on the South Waterfront Cycletrack. We're no Utrecht, but the level of bicycle traffic is enough for me.




On my side of town, bike specific clothes are more common, probably
because of the longer commute distances and climbing. During rainy
season, people on both sides of town tend to dress more technically.


In Europe we threw on a rain racket and, if it was really bad, spats
that went all the way up the lower leg (I hated those).


I passed a guy this morning who dressed in Showers Pass garb, top to
bottom. ...


Ah, a lawyer or some other millionaire 8-)

Their coated pants are not horribly expensive. https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...iABEgKcpPD_BwE

I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.

Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is
cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself.

Plenty of ventilation.

I've tried the gamit from plastic, coated to fancy breathable gear, but
the above was the best set up. YMMV.

On 2018-10-09 22:35, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.


Ride fast enough and dodge the rain drops :-)


Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is
cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself.

Plenty of ventilation.

I've tried the gamit from plastic, coated to fancy breathable gear, but
the above was the best set up. YMMV.


I second that.

Sans the mud guard but the splatter onto my back is muffled by racks and
panniers on both bikes.

Hail is a real pain though. Every time I got into that I had forgotten a
plastic bag to strap over the helmet. So the hail pebbles piled up in
its vent holes, almost giving me a brain freeze.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but
having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change
socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I
rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I
flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer
away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper
light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on
Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has
such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are
often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have
panniers for their laptops and stuff.

Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights
on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly
noticeable in broad daylight.


Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position
lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi
away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen.


The police in Bangkok directing traffic in the early morning use
flashlights which are very visible in the early morning but can hardly
be seen in full daylight.


They need to get better flashlights. I used to have one that could light
up a hillside 1/2 mile from here.


Even the light from the more powerful light houses (1,000,000 candle
power) isn't visible from any distance in tropical daylight.

I can only assume that your super powerful lights are like a St.
Christopher medal on the handle bars that you "just know" will keep
you safe on your travels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 10:54:39 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but
having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change
socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I
rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I
flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer
away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper
light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on
Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has
such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are
often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have
panniers for their laptops and stuff.

Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights
on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly
noticeable in broad daylight.


Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position
lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi
away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen.


The police in Bangkok directing traffic in the early morning use
flashlights which are very visible in the early morning but can hardly
be seen in full daylight.


They need to get better flashlights. I used to have one that could light
up a hillside 1/2 mile from here.


Even the light from the more powerful light houses (1,000,000 candle
power) isn't visible from any distance in tropical daylight.

I can only assume that your super powerful lights are like a St.
Christopher medal on the handle bars that you "just know" will keep
you safe on your travels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Once again. It must be terrible to live in an area where bicycling is fraught with so many dangerous situations.

Cheers