Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/27/2018 6:05 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

Maybe they aren't LED but these Zenon HID lights:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/ca/blog/2...car-headlights

Xenon are not HID, they are incandescent.

A long time ago, in the U.S., high beams were called "brights" or
"bright lights." There used to be a little round metal foot switch on
the floor by the driver's left foot, i.e.
https://www.waalfm.com/img/waalfm/car-highbeamswitch-800-x-600.jpg.

This is what Frank was talking about when he stated "sometimes when I'm
riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights."
He wasn't referring to HID or LED headlights. Not many people still call
high-beams "brights."

Many high end vehicles have HID headlights, and the DOT hasn't (or
hadn't) caught up with the problem of rating headlights by wattage. A
35W HID is much brighter than a 35W incandescent. A 35W HID will produce
about 3200 lumens. The brightest 35W low beam incandescent is about 900
lumens. Some LED low beams claim 6000 or more lumens, and you can see
the elaborate thermal solutions they use, including some with cooling
fans, and some with huge heat sinks, heat pipes, or copper braid, but
the actual LED output is about 3000 lumens.

In any case, for a cyclist to intentionally use sub-standard lighting,
and then complain a vehicle driver uses their high-beams, or "brights"
as they used to be called, is ludicrous. You will not change ingrainde
driver behavior by insisting that if you use minimally legal lighting
that they should be able to see you easily at night. If a driver thinks
that they glimpse an animal, pedestrian, cyclist, etc., at night, they
will turn on their high beams, and it's not to be obnoxious. The way to
stop this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use good lighting so the vehicle
driver easily sees you with their low beams. It's not a costly endeavor.
Being stubborn is unwise.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/27/2018 11:45 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

SMS, I believe everyone here knows how to use headlights. Those instructions
need to go to the dolts who my wife complained about on our drive home this
evening. It was about 30 miles entirely over rural highways. My
wife complained
more than I did - "I wish those guys would dim their lights!" or "I
hate those
bright lights! Why isn't that illegal?"

Most people driving at night are sensible and responsible. But there's a
significant number who just do not bother to turn their high beams
off. There's
also a significant number who either say "MFFY, I'm leaving my brights on"
or who might think "Wait, you mean there are two settings for my
headlights??"

Those latter ones are the ones I'm calling low IQ. And compared to totally
self-centered and abusive, low IQ is charitable.

Ohio must be different. I have experienced over-bright headlights, and
headlights that are poorly aimed, but have never been anywhere that
drivers commonly neglected to dim their brights for oncoming motor
traffic. In many locales behaving that way would be tempting homicidal
road rage, not to mention traffic citations.

OK, more details. First, my complaints apply mostly to two different
rural routes I have to drive at night, typically once per week. These
are two lane state highways in farm country. One is hilly and
curvy. Each drive is a bit over 30 miles.

Most drivers are fine, but I can count on at least two or three that
handle their high beams badly. I know that it's unscientific to rely
on general impressions, but ISTM that pickup truck drivers are over
represented among offenders. They are also far more likely to have
auxiliary driving lights running, which also add to the glare. I
suspect some of this goes along with the "rolling coal" mentality.

Is it just inattention, or is it MFFY? I've had a couple incidents
where I've flashed my brights to ask them to dim theirs, and they
responded by turning on their auxiliary lights. I once described in
detail here where a pickup driver sat across from me at a red light
with his high beams on. When I flashed my brights, he turned on a
super-bright light bar at the top of his windshield.

As to not knowing how to operate the lights: A few years ago I was a
passenger in a car driving a similar rural road. We have a problem
with deer crashes, and I expressed surprise that this person did not
have her high beams on, since there was no other traffic. In response,
she said "I don't even know how to turn them on." I had to tell her to
push the turn signal lever forward.

I don't understand what was wrong with the ergonomics of the little
button on the floor. Never saw one break, either, which I can't say for
overly complicated turn signal levers.

It would be pointlessly antagonostic of me to flatly contradict your
version of something that happened to you :\ So I'll just repeat that
your corner of Ohio seems to have uniquely bad behavior with high beams.

Where I live:

* There are some glaring low beams, although the really obnoxious bluish
ones (Xenon HID?) are thankfully thinner on the ground than they were
a few years ago.

* The group of drivers most likely to delay dimming their headlights are
not red neck pickup drivers, they are q-tips in late model El Dorados,
who probably shouldn't be driving, at least at night.

* Drivers *do* respond to enforcement. I could point out several local
crosswalks where drivers will almost certainly yield to pedestrians,
and many similar ones where a random driver faced with a pedestrian
would as likely hand him a winning scratch ticket as yield. The same
is true for "no turn on red" signs. I believe the difference is
(very) local enforcement.

Refusing to dip high beams strikes me as an infraction likely to
result in a ticket -- when deciding whether to dip it's impossible to
tell whether the oncoming vehicle is a police car, and I suspect that
cops are at least as easily annoyed by high beams as ordinary drivers.

* Although I see a lot of needlessly creative driving, I would be quite
surprised to see a driver simply refuse to dip his lights to oncoming
auto traffic. Not dipping to bicycles would surprise me a bit less.

--

On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 08:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2018 6:05 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

Maybe they aren't LED but these Zenon HID lights:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/ca/blog/2...car-headlights

Xenon are not HID, they are incandescent.

A long time ago, in the U.S., high beams were called "brights" or
"bright lights." There used to be a little round metal foot switch on
the floor by the driver's left foot, i.e.
https://www.waalfm.com/img/waalfm/car-highbeamswitch-800-x-600.jpg.

This is what Frank was talking about when he stated "sometimes when I'm
riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights."
He wasn't referring to HID or LED headlights. Not many people still call
high-beams "brights."

Many high end vehicles have HID headlights, and the DOT hasn't (or
hadn't) caught up with the problem of rating headlights by wattage. A
35W HID is much brighter than a 35W incandescent. A 35W HID will produce
about 3200 lumens. The brightest 35W low beam incandescent is about 900
lumens. Some LED low beams claim 6000 or more lumens, and you can see
the elaborate thermal solutions they use, including some with cooling
fans, and some with huge heat sinks, heat pipes, or copper braid, but
the actual LED output is about 3000 lumens.

In any case, for a cyclist to intentionally use sub-standard lighting,
and then complain a vehicle driver uses their high-beams, or "brights"
as they used to be called, is ludicrous. You will not change ingrainde
driver behavior by insisting that if you use minimally legal lighting
that they should be able to see you easily at night. If a driver thinks
that they glimpse an animal, pedestrian, cyclist, etc., at night, they
will turn on their high beams, and it's not to be obnoxious. The way to
stop this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use good lighting so the vehicle
driver easily sees you with their low beams. It's not a costly endeavor.
Being stubborn is unwise.

Or just don't ride at night :-)

sms wrote:
On 7/27/2018 6:05 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

Maybe they aren't LED but these Zenon HID lights:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/ca/blog/2...car-headlights

Xenon are not HID, they are incandescent.

A long time ago, in the U.S., high beams were called "brights" or
"bright lights." There used to be a little round metal foot switch on
the floor by the driver's left foot, i.e.
https://www.waalfm.com/img/waalfm/car-highbeamswitch-800-x-600.jpg.

This is what Frank was talking about when he stated "sometimes when I'm
riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights."
He wasn't referring to HID or LED headlights. Not many people still call
high-beams "brights."

Many high end vehicles have HID headlights, and the DOT hasn't (or
hadn't) caught up with the problem of rating headlights by wattage. A
35W HID is much brighter than a 35W incandescent. A 35W HID will produce
about 3200 lumens. The brightest 35W low beam incandescent is about 900
lumens. Some LED low beams claim 6000 or more lumens, and you can see
the elaborate thermal solutions they use, including some with cooling
fans, and some with huge heat sinks, heat pipes, or copper braid, but
the actual LED output is about 3000 lumens.

In any case, for a cyclist to intentionally use sub-standard lighting,
and then complain a vehicle driver uses their high-beams, or "brights"
as they used to be called, is ludicrous. You will not change ingrainde
driver behavior by insisting that if you use minimally legal lighting
that they should be able to see you easily at night. If a driver thinks
that they glimpse an animal, pedestrian, cyclist, etc., at night, they
will turn on their high beams, and it's not to be obnoxious. The way to
stop this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use good lighting so the vehicle
driver easily sees you with their low beams. It's not a costly endeavor.
Being stubborn is unwise.


Not according to the link I cited:
Xenon HID (High Intensity Discharge) bulbs are filled with Xenon gas and
contain two electrodes - one on each end of the tube-like bulb. When the
bulb is switched on, an electric current passes between the two electrodes
and the Xenon gas lights up. The Xenon gas is actually only used during the
start-up of the bulb. Once the desire

We aren’t talking about hi-beams so there’s no question about the cyclist
being at fault for being poorly lit.


--
duane

On 2018-07-27 16:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:42 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


Yesterday I rode through a long narrow bike path tunnel underneath Hwy
50. All others generally blow through there at their full 15-25mph, in
almost total darkness. Yet this is a place where rattlesnakes often
curl up to cool off.

I always go through there at 5mph with my headlight at full power.
Because of rattlers and because there is the occasional homeless
person sleeping off yesterday's hangover.

Ah, rattlesnakes in tunnels! Another deadly hazard in Joergland!

So, how many tunnel rattlesnake bike fatalities in your very special area?


Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal. They are, however, nasty, will
thoroughly ruin you day and then some, plus the antivenom is very
expensive and will set podeple back fiancially via a four-digit copay.

Running into a soused guy in a sleeping bag isn't so cool either.

Such extra caution costs next to nothing in equipment and "lost" time.
$30-40 for a good lighting system and throttling to 5mph for less than a
minute isn't excessive in my book.

I have met a guy how had a nasty crash in such a tunnel. He hit a beer
bottle that he didn't see. I would have seen it. It's as simple as that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 7/28/2018 3:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 16:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:42 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


Yesterday I rode through a long narrow bike path tunnel underneath Hwy
50. All others generally blow through there at their full 15-25mph, in
almost total darkness. Yet this is a place where rattlesnakes often
curl up to cool off.

I always go through there at 5mph with my headlight at full power.
Because of rattlers and because there is the occasional homeless
person sleeping off yesterday's hangover.

Ah, rattlesnakes in tunnels! Another deadly hazard in Joergland!

So, how many tunnel rattlesnake bike fatalities in your very special
area?


Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal. They are, however, nasty, will
thoroughly ruin you day and then some, plus the antivenom is very
expensive and will set podeple back fiancially via a four-digit copay.

Running into a soused guy in a sleeping bag isn't so cool either.

Such extra caution costs next to nothing in equipment and "lost" time.
$30-40 for a good lighting system and throttling to 5mph for less than a
minute isn't excessive in my book.

I have met a guy how had a nasty crash in such a tunnel. He hit a beer
bottle that he didn't see. I would have seen it. It's as simple as that.

I have a friend who tripped over at tree root while walking. Cracked rib
and black and blue face. It's a dangerous world, all right!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 17:18:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/28/2018 3:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 16:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:42 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


Yesterday I rode through a long narrow bike path tunnel underneath Hwy
50. All others generally blow through there at their full 15-25mph, in
almost total darkness. Yet this is a place where rattlesnakes often
curl up to cool off.

I always go through there at 5mph with my headlight at full power.
Because of rattlers and because there is the occasional homeless
person sleeping off yesterday's hangover.

Ah, rattlesnakes in tunnels! Another deadly hazard in Joergland!

So, how many tunnel rattlesnake bike fatalities in your very special
area?


Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal. They are, however, nasty, will
thoroughly ruin you day and then some, plus the antivenom is very
expensive and will set podeple back fiancially via a four-digit copay.

Running into a soused guy in a sleeping bag isn't so cool either.

Such extra caution costs next to nothing in equipment and "lost" time.
$30-40 for a good lighting system and throttling to 5mph for less than a
minute isn't excessive in my book.

I have met a guy how had a nasty crash in such a tunnel. He hit a beer
bottle that he didn't see. I would have seen it. It's as simple as that.

I have a friend who tripped over at tree root while walking. Cracked rib
and black and blue face. It's a dangerous world, all right!


You can even die from falling out of bed.... and 3 times the numbers
of people die from falling out of bed as die from bicycle crashes in
California.

Are "Bed Helmets" next on the agenda?

https://www.brainjet.com/random/2352...uldnt-believe/
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-falli...icans-annually

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-falli...icans-annually

Would safety belts for snoozers make them safer?

On 7/28/2018 12:08 PM, Duane wrote:
sms wrote:
On 7/27/2018 6:05 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

Maybe they aren't LED but these Zenon HID lights:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/ca/blog/2...car-headlights

Xenon are not HID, they are incandescent.

A long time ago, in the U.S., high beams were called "brights" or
"bright lights." There used to be a little round metal foot switch on
the floor by the driver's left foot, i.e.
https://www.waalfm.com/img/waalfm/car-highbeamswitch-800-x-600.jpg.

This is what Frank was talking about when he stated "sometimes when I'm
riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights."
He wasn't referring to HID or LED headlights. Not many people still call
high-beams "brights."

Many high end vehicles have HID headlights, and the DOT hasn't (or
hadn't) caught up with the problem of rating headlights by wattage. A
35W HID is much brighter than a 35W incandescent. A 35W HID will produce
about 3200 lumens. The brightest 35W low beam incandescent is about 900
lumens. Some LED low beams claim 6000 or more lumens, and you can see
the elaborate thermal solutions they use, including some with cooling
fans, and some with huge heat sinks, heat pipes, or copper braid, but
the actual LED output is about 3000 lumens.

In any case, for a cyclist to intentionally use sub-standard lighting,
and then complain a vehicle driver uses their high-beams, or "brights"
as they used to be called, is ludicrous. You will not change ingrainde
driver behavior by insisting that if you use minimally legal lighting
that they should be able to see you easily at night. If a driver thinks
that they glimpse an animal, pedestrian, cyclist, etc., at night, they
will turn on their high beams, and it's not to be obnoxious. The way to
stop this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use good lighting so the vehicle
driver easily sees you with their low beams. It's not a costly endeavor.
Being stubborn is unwise.


Not according to the link I cited:
Xenon HID (High Intensity Discharge) bulbs are filled with Xenon gas and
contain two electrodes - one on each end of the tube-like bulb. When the
bulb is switched on, an electric current passes between the two electrodes
and the Xenon gas lights up. The Xenon gas is actually only used during the
start-up of the bulb. Once the desir


No, the presence of Xenon does not imply HID. See
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KDO9KE

On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:46:05 -0700, sms
wrote:

No, the presence of Xenon does not imply HID. See
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KDO9KE

There are xenon filled arc (discharge) lamps and xenon filled
incandescent lamps. They're very different with the xenon doing
different things of each type. This covers the differences:
"What is the difference between genuine XENON HID lights and Xenon
gas-filled bulbs?"
https://www.preciseflight.com/support/questions/faq/3/

An HID (high intensity discharge) bulbs is usually filled with xenon
gas and has no filament. One can also use any of the noble gasses,
argon, neon, krypton, and xenon, or a mixture of these. An arc
ionizes the gas, which produces a plasma, which then lights up in
various colors. Some colors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas-discharge_lamp#Color

Xenon filled incandescent maps operate similarly to halogen filled
incanscent light bulbs. The idea is to slow down the rate of tungsten
evaporation from the filament. To do this the filament and bulb need
to run very hot. The halogen gas or mix literally bounces the
evaporated tungsten back to the filament.
"Xenon Incandescent Lamps"
http://donklipstein.com/xeincand.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

sms wrote:
On 7/28/2018 12:08 PM, Duane wrote:
sms wrote:
On 7/27/2018 6:05 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

Maybe they aren't LED but these Zenon HID lights:
https://www.powerbulbs.com/ca/blog/2...car-headlights

Xenon are not HID, they are incandescent.

A long time ago, in the U.S., high beams were called "brights" or
"bright lights." There used to be a little round metal foot switch on
the floor by the driver's left foot, i.e.
https://www.waalfm.com/img/waalfm/car-highbeamswitch-800-x-600.jpg.

This is what Frank was talking about when he stated "sometimes when I'm
riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights."
He wasn't referring to HID or LED headlights. Not many people still call
high-beams "brights."

Many high end vehicles have HID headlights, and the DOT hasn't (or
hadn't) caught up with the problem of rating headlights by wattage. A
35W HID is much brighter than a 35W incandescent. A 35W HID will produce
about 3200 lumens. The brightest 35W low beam incandescent is about 900
lumens. Some LED low beams claim 6000 or more lumens, and you can see
the elaborate thermal solutions they use, including some with cooling
fans, and some with huge heat sinks, heat pipes, or copper braid, but
the actual LED output is about 3000 lumens.

In any case, for a cyclist to intentionally use sub-standard lighting,
and then complain a vehicle driver uses their high-beams, or "brights"
as they used to be called, is ludicrous. You will not change ingrainde
driver behavior by insisting that if you use minimally legal lighting
that they should be able to see you easily at night. If a driver thinks
that they glimpse an animal, pedestrian, cyclist, etc., at night, they
will turn on their high beams, and it's not to be obnoxious. The way to
stop this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use good lighting so the vehicle
driver easily sees you with their low beams. It's not a costly endeavor.
Being stubborn is unwise.


Not according to the link I cited:
Xenon HID (High Intensity Discharge) bulbs are filled with Xenon gas and
contain two electrodes - one on each end of the tube-like bulb. When the
bulb is switched on, an electric current passes between the two electrodes
and the Xenon gas lights up. The Xenon gas is actually only used during the
start-up of the bulb. Once the desir


No, the presence of Xenon does not imply HID. See
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KDO9KE


These HID lights use Xenon. No one said Xenon = HID.

Whatever. The blue tinted super bright light that we were talking about
seems to be what these lights supply.
It isn’t a case of cyclists causing people to use their high beams or
“brights� because they aren’t using bright enough lights on their bikes.

--
duane