Disc Brakes...

I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty aggresive
cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical trails to
ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1 pad
will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit after a
long steep decent. I'm sure I would like the Shimano XT, or some Hayes
equivelent disk brakes but I was wondering if there were some different
brands like Grimeca, Hope, or Magura that someone would have some input on.
Input on Shimano and Hayes would also be welcome.

Thanks for any help on this topic.

TJ

"Chris Phillipo" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...
I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
aggresive
cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical
trails to
ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem
is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1
pad
will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit
after a
long steep decent. I'm sure I would like the Shimano XT, or some Hayes
equivelent disk brakes but I was wondering if there were some different
brands like Grimeca, Hope, or Magura that someone would have some input
on.
Input on Shimano and Hayes would also be welcome.

Thanks for any help on this topic.

TJ




I would suggest same better aftermarket pads from Koolstop or EBC before
you go throwing out those brakes. I have Hayes but I can't say they are
really that much better than Shimano Deore. In fact I think the deore
lever is much better designed.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com

I've just put another new set of EBC Green in and I'm sure people think that
it's a hog-on-fire coming up behind them. The squealing is terrible! LOL!
I'll let them bed in a little before I reach for the oil can. Good pads
won't always solve the problem. But better brakes probably won't either.
Water certainly doesn't help. I don't know a great deal about the brakes
but would get them checked - it doesn't sound right that one piston is
moving less than the other.
--
Westie

" I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
aggresive
cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical trails
to
ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1
pad
will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit after
a
long steep decent.

I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:57:13 -0400, "John Harlow"
wrote:

|
|" I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
|aggresive
| cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical trails
|to
| ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
| curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
| Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem is
| that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1
|pad
| will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit after
|a
| long steep decent.
|
|I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
|(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
|dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
|problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
|downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely loose
|effectiveness too.

Wow.

That is quite the opposite of my experience with many different
flavors of rims brakes.

I used to get heat flats with cantis/Vs/hydraulic rim brakes on one
long, hot, steep descent.

No problem with discs, even with the relatively crappy Magura Louise
discs that I used for a while.

"John Harlow" wrote in message ...

I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.


Interesting, I'm on my 2nd season DH'ing with 6" (front & rear) Hayes hydros......no problems here or at places like San Juan trail
(6 mi DH).

Sounds like you may have a bad bleed?
--
Slacker

Westie wrote:
"Chris Phillipo" wrote in message
.. .

In article ,
says...

I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty

aggresive

cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical

trails to

ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem

is

that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1

pad

will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit

after a

long steep decent. I'm sure I would like the Shimano XT, or some Hayes
equivelent disk brakes but I was wondering if there were some different
brands like Grimeca, Hope, or Magura that someone would have some input

on.

Input on Shimano and Hayes would also be welcome.

Thanks for any help on this topic.

TJ




I would suggest same better aftermarket pads from Koolstop or EBC before
you go throwing out those brakes. I have Hayes but I can't say they are
really that much better than Shimano Deore. In fact I think the deore
lever is much better designed.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com


I've just put another new set of EBC Green in and I'm sure people think that
it's a hog-on-fire coming up behind them. The squealing is terrible! LOL!
I'll let them bed in a little before I reach for the oil can. Good pads
won't always solve the problem. But better brakes probably won't either.
Water certainly doesn't help. I don't know a great deal about the brakes
but would get them checked - it doesn't sound right that one piston is
moving less than the other.
--
Westie


Standard answer -- disc brake squeel us usually oil contamination -- on
the rotor and on the pads. SO, just replacing the pads won't get rid of
the squeel. A common source of the oil is from cleaning your chain. I
learned early to be really careful not to spray water from the chain
side even remotely in the direction of the discs -- even low pressure
water'll carry that lube onto your rotor and it lubes just as well there
as on your chain . I even made a disc cover from a big plastic lid
that I put over it when I clean my chain on the bike so that I don't
have to worry.

BUT, things to try...
- comet
- alcohol
- auto brake cleaner (not on hayes)
- mud -- this is what works best for me. Smear it on the rotor and
ride. Repeat as necessary . I use fine mud without stones -- stones
get in the holes of the rotor and gouge the pads -- not a show stopper,
just a little less pad in contact with the rotor until they wear even
again. The big advantage to mud is that it's always available . If
you're not near water, make some mud with water from your hydration pak
and a little trail dirt. AND, it's best not to do it at the bottom of a
hill -- the rotor's a bit hot (although the sizzle's kinda neat until
you realize a nano-second later that it's your finger that's sizzling ).

David

John Harlow wrote:
" I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
aggresive

cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical trails

to

ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1

pad

will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit after

a

long steep decent.


I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.


Maybe it's the hydrolic fluid? I have Hayes mechanicals and have no
fade problems -- even on long mountain fire-road descents. I use EBC
green pads, but I've also done it with Hayes pads and found them to
slighly better at fade resistance.

David

John Harlow wrote in message
...

" I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
aggresive
cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical
trails
to
ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem
is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1
pad
will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit
after
a
long steep decent.

I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely
loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.

They do a what when?!?!?!?!? Discs are the _best_ idea for long steep
descents 'IMNSHO' - only probs I heard of are with the closed system ones
(with pad clearance adjustable on the master cyl.), where the pads get tight
against the rotor as they get hot and they lock up. The open ones (like my
Hope Mini) 'self-adjust', so this doesn't happen. Only time they faded on me
was when my fork seal went and dumped fork oil all over the rotor, which
wasn't the fault of the brakes, obviously - they have _never_ let me down
otherwise.


Shaun aRe - To the OP - I can highly recommend the HOPE brakes, from
experience, and they came highly recommended to me the same way.

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...

" I'm looking for a good hydraulic disc brake system. I do pretty
aggresive
cross country riding, meaning I look for very steep very technical
trails
to
ride both up and down and thow in the moderate connecting trails. I'm
curently using the Shimano brakes that came with the 2002 Specialized
Enduro, I believe they are the M525 hydraulic disk brakes. The problem
is
that as the pads wear, the 2 pistons don't move in the same amount so 1
pad
will start rubbing and in turn sqeel. They also start to fade a bit
after
a
long steep decent.

I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely
loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.



What?! Must be those 'Comp' level brakes. ;^) No problems with my 8in
Hayes Mags or 5 1/4" Hope Minis.

Mike - who'll never go back to rim brakes.

I'm not so sure disc are a good idea for long steep descents. I have
them
(Hayes) and frankly the small rotors don't have enough surface area to
dissipate the heat. They burn up while the rim brake riders have no
problem. This seems to be the one (infrequent at least in my case )
downside with discs. Once they get superheated they seem to severely
loose
effectiveness too.

You might have marginally better luck with larger (8 inch) rotors.



What?! Must be those 'Comp' level brakes. ;^) No problems with my 8in
Hayes Mags or 5 1/4" Hope Minis.


Wow. Apparently I am the only one to have ever had this happen. But
careening down a narrow mountain hillside with a rapidly approaching
switchback and a fistfull of brake lever fading to virtual nothingness got
my attention.

BTW, it wasn't the comps either - it was the stock ones on the Giant.