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SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!



 
 
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  #181  
Old October 10th 18, 10:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,337
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 10/10/2018 1:25 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.

Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is
cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself.

Plenty of ventilation.


That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have
friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes
care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer
further help when necessary.

But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the
lightest sprinkle.


I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides in the rain, I wear basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer. This time of year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop.

That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or balaclava to put on at the top.

I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end. Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent) http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg , and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable.

Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most important. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on your fenders. https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/


I understand your clothing approach. It's similar to what I did for long
rides in winter, where every item is very specific to the conditions and
all chosen to work together.

One problem for me is that if it's going to be raining a lot, I'll just
stay home. (We don't get a long rainy season like you do.)

The corollary is this: If I'm out riding and it begins to rain, I'm in
clothes much different than you describe. Two rainy rides this year
started off fine and dry, and rain wasn't predicted until long after I
got back. So the weatherman goofed again.

For one of the rides, I had just slogged through some long distasteful
project - perhaps income tax? - and I wanted to burn off steam with a
quick 15 miler. I wasn't even in riding clothes. When the downpour came,
all I had was my rain cape in my seat bag. Unfortunately, my fender flap
had somehow escaped from its normal place at the bottom of my handlebar
bag.

I'll readily admit a rain cape is far from perfect. I ride on the hoods,
and I get an irritating puddle in the cape between my forearms. I
usually sit on the back of the cape, but sides do flap and let water in.
And the fabric against my (usually) bare forearms makes them feel wet
and clammy. (Maybe I should add some polypro arm warmers to the rain
cape bag.)

As I see it, the main benefit of the cape is that it keeps the legs
somewhat dry without requiring any special costume down there. It
worked, at least after a fashion, when riding home from work in casual
slacks.

At one time, John Forester tried to sell custom fitted rain capes. As I
recall you had to send in a bunch of measurements of your body on the
bike, and he (or someone) made up something that was kept taut and
un-flappy by your body. But I was never tempted to actually buy one.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #182  
Old October 10th 18, 10:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,338
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 10/10/2018 12:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ


"At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout
the day, as well as at night."

... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course!

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.


Then you disagree with the source you cited?


No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode.


The "breathe mode" on the light that I cited is a good choice for
daytime use. It's not annoying but it's more visible than a steady light
which tends to blend in. It'd like the modulated motorcycle DRLs. Well
they aren't actually more visible than non-modulated lights but they are
perceived as a vehicle that is moving rather than some other light source.

  #183  
Old October 10th 18, 10:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,337
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ


"At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout
the day, as well as at night."

... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course!

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.


Then you disagree with the source you cited?


No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode.


Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little
ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a
check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned
by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some
former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit
on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles
were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide)
so we rode at lane center.

As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple
who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for
entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no
indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us.

Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered
lights, but neither of us had them on.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #184  
Old October 10th 18, 10:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,552
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 2018-10-10 14:12, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 1:25 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.

Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is
cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself.

Plenty of ventilation.

That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have
friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes
care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer
further help when necessary.

But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the
lightest sprinkle.


I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides
in the rain, I wear basically this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI
Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of
booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer. This time of
year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger
Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I
switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop.

That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with
hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb
and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F
at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that
vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up
tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or
balaclava to put on at the top.

I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of
Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some
friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end.
Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to
warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from
Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving
corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent)
http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg
, and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the
mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable.

Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that
will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most
important. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and
rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on
your fenders.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/


I understand your clothing approach. It's similar to what I did for long
rides in winter, where every item is very specific to the conditions and
all chosen to work together.

One problem for me is that if it's going to be raining a lot, I'll just
stay home. (We don't get a long rainy season like you do.)

The corollary is this: If I'm out riding and it begins to rain, I'm in
clothes much different than you describe. Two rainy rides this year
started off fine and dry, and rain wasn't predicted until long after I
got back. So the weatherman goofed again.


During a serious downpour last year I waited in front of a traffic
light. T-shirt completely soaked, same for the shorts. Since I had just
come off a muddy trail a brown puddle formed around my MTB. A guy in a
car pulls up next to me, rolls down the passenger window. "Dude, it's
raining out there!"


For one of the rides, I had just slogged through some long distasteful
project - perhaps income tax? - and I wanted to burn off steam with a
quick 15 miler. I wasn't even in riding clothes. When the downpour came,
all I had was my rain cape in my seat bag. Unfortunately, my fender flap
had somehow escaped from its normal place at the bottom of my handlebar
bag.


This is where one would want to find a brewpub nearby 8-)

--
SCNR, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #185  
Old October 10th 18, 10:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,552
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ

"At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout
the day, as well as at night."

... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course!

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.

Then you disagree with the source you cited?


No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode.


Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little
ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a
check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned
by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some
former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit
on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles
were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide)
so we rode at lane center.

As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple
who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for
entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no
indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us.

Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered
lights, but neither of us had them on.



Some people are not so lucky in the lane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGD5P_LHEHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abqysSwOcIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqbbiRxoWR4

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #186  
Old October 10th 18, 11:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,434
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 1:57:03 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 1:26:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 9:35:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 1:35 AM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 22:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I've tried rain pants only once, IIRC. IMO there can't possibly be
enough ventilation. But I admit, I know no really comfortable way of
riding in the rain.

Use 1: a cape, 2: mudguards and 3: sandals. (Wool soxes/socks if it is
cold). Caveat, I made the cape myself.

Plenty of ventilation.

That's what I usually use, except for the sandals part, although I have
friends who love their riding sandals. The mud flap on my fender takes
care of most road spray at my feet. Shoe covers over my toe clips offer
further help when necessary.

But I'm still not really comfortable riding in the rain, unless it's the
lightest sprinkle.


I've never used a rain cape and hate things that flap. For long rides in the rain, I wear basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzz9VBdKCU Showers Pass jacket, PI Amfib tights, Gore booties (or one of my four or five pairs of booties). I wear a poly pro base layer and a mid-layer.. This time of year, wool is a good mid-layer. I have some lightweight long-finger Giro gloves my son got on pro deal that are good for early fall, and I switch to more robust gloves as the temperatures drop.

That video has snippets of Larch Mountain (cut back and forth with hills practically in my back yard -- odd), which is a 14.5 mile climb and probably the hardest ride for picking clothing since it can be 50F at the bottom and snow at the top. You have to have something that vents really well for the climb, stays relatively dry and zips up tight for the descent. I also take a light vest and an ear band or balaclava to put on at the top.

I've told this story before, but the RT from my house to the top of Larch Mountain is 90 miles depending on route, and I did it with some friends entirely in the rain -- all day from beginning to end. Everyone got hypothermic on the descent. We had to stop repeatedly to warm up. Half the group called their wives for a ride home from Corbett. I had pretty good layering and revitalized with a life-saving corn dog at the Corbett store (and stood over a heating vent) http://columbiariverimages.com/Image...t_06-30-14.jpg , and although I suffered in the freezing rain coming down the mountain, the ride home was reasonably comfortable.

Everything soaks through eventually, and you have to pick layers that will keep you reasonably warm when wet. IMO, booties are the most important.. I can't stand cold swamp feet. Everybody has fenders and rain bikes. You get shunned on a group ride if you don't have flaps on your fenders. https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheap...7632139896627/

-- Jay Beattie.


I still remember the bicycling adage folr when riding in the rain especially a heavy rain. "You're wet and cold or you're wet and warm but either way you're wet". That adage was true whether one was wearing waterproof breathable clothing, waterproof only clothing or regular clothing. When honking up a steep climb or otherwise exerting myself I found that the waterproof breathable jackets didn't vent sweat or other body moisture fast enough to prevent my clothing getting wet. At least the jacket was windproof which stopped me from getting hypothermia.

BTW, true hypothermia requires medical treatment and can NOT be overcome simple by standing someplace warm. In fact true hypothermia plus an external heating source can be fatal. One of the greatest treatments for hypothermia these days is to give the victim WARM air or oxygen via a face mask so that the body warms from the inside towards the outside.


Well, lucky for me, I was riding with my panniers filled with, among other things, a heart bypass machine and an O2 bottle. I used the bypass machine to recirculate and warm my blood and huffed a little on the 02. There were a whole bunch of other cyclists suffering like me, so I warmed their blood too, and then I pulled them back to Portland with my rope. I always keep rope with me so I can tow people. We all stopped at a brewpub on the way home. The people at the pub said, "hey, don't you know that it's raining out there!" We had a big laugh together.

-- Jay Beattie.






  #187  
Old October 10th 18, 11:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,337
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 10/10/2018 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 3:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 09:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/10/2018 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ

"At Exposure, we feel it's as important to use good lights throughout
the day, as well as at night."

... um, because we're trying to sell the things, of course!

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.

Then you disagree with the source you cited?


No. Those bright lights are visible enough in non-flash mode.


Speaking of visible enough: My wife and I just returned from a little
ride. We rode out to the suburban branch of our credit union to cash a
check, then a bit beyond it into sort of semi-rural roads. We returned
by different roads. We were on some quiet residential streets, some
former farm roads that are now short cuts to housing developments, a bit
on an arterial road or two with 50 mph traffic, etc. Quite a few miles
were on lanes that were obviously too narrow to share (like 9 feet wide)
so we rode at lane center.

As usual, we had no problems with any drivers. (Well, except a couple
who were clogging things up while they seemed to be looking for
entrances to some obscure businesses). And there was absolutely no
indication that anyone had any trouble seeing us.

Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered
lights, but neither of us had them on.



Some people are not so lucky in the lane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGD5P_LHEHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abqysSwOcIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqbbiRxoWR4


You can find videos of almost anything on the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVl-6-A9ZO4

Over 40,000 motorist deaths per year in the U.S.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #188  
Old October 10th 18, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but
having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change
socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I
rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I
flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer
away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper
light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on
Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has
such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are
often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have
panniers for their laptops and stuff.


Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights
on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly
noticeable in broad daylight.


Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position
lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi
away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen.


I see. A light that can be seen from a 3 mile distance is rather dim
while a light that can be seen from 1/2 a mile is O.K.???


The police in Bangkok directing traffic in the early morning use
flashlights which are very visible in the early morning but can hardly
be seen in full daylight.


They need to get better flashlights. I used to have one that could light
up a hillside 1/2 mile from here.

In broad summer daylight? Me thinks that you exaggerate just a tiny
bit.

But then, that isn't unusual.


Even the light from the more powerful light houses (1,000,000 candle
power) isn't visible from any distance in tropical daylight.

I can only assume that your super powerful lights are like a St.
Christopher medal on the handle bars that you "just know" will keep
you safe on your travels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgybEXkhvHQ

I don't use flash mode on my front lights though.

--
Cheers

John B.
  #189  
Old October 11th 18, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,552
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 2018-10-10 15:44, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-09 17:01, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 07:57:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 17:22, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:16:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-10-08 16:05, John B. Slocomb wrote:

[...]

... but
having said that I might comment that it is not difficult to change
socks, even sitting on the roadside curb.


And change all the other things sitting on a curb in a business park? I
rather flick a little switch and have instant visibility. Upon arrival I
flick it again, visibility turns off. Simple.

As I said, I noticed the orange socks going up and down a kilometer
away on a bright summer day. I doubt strongly whether your super-duper
light would even be visible (in bright daylight) at that distance.


It sure is. I can say that for sure because this occasionally happens on
Green Valley Road when I have to use the car and another cyclist has
such good lighting. No orange socks. The riders with good lights are
often longhaul bike commuters. They wear nice shirts, khakis and have
panniers for their laptops and stuff.

Strange you know. I used to be a sailor and even the navigation lights
on a ship that must be visible from a 3 mile distance are hardly
noticeable in broad daylight.


Compared to a MagicShine or similar light many red and green position
lights on ships are rather dim. Also, I do not need to be seen from 3mi
away but from 1/2mi away I sometimes want to be seen.


I see. A light that can be seen from a 3 mile distance is rather dim
while a light that can be seen from 1/2 a mile is O.K.???



https://www.go2marine.com/product/16...onet-base.html

Navigation light: 30W incandescent, efficiency about 20 lumens/watt (if
you are lucky), omnidirectional 360 degrees, only vertically focused.

Mine: 8W LED, efficiency about 100 lumens/watt, not omnidirectional but
60 degree horizontal spread, similar vertical focus.

I trust you can do the math.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #190  
Old October 11th 18, 12:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,338
Default SIX thousand and FIVE hundred lumens !!!!!!!!!!

On 10/10/2018 2:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-10-10 14:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Apparently, we were visible enough. Our bikes both had dynamo powered
lights, but neither of us had them on.


Some people are not so lucky in the lane.


How do you explain to someone that just because they engaged in
dangerous behavior and got lucky that it does not prove that what they
did was intelligent or logical?

In their minds, the fact that they were lucky is absolute proof that
what they did was a good idea.

My father smoked two packs a day for about 40 years and did not get lung
cancer so that must prove that smoking was not a problem despite all the
evidence to the contrary.
 




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