SA - Road safety program launched with a focus on cyclists

Dorfus Dippintush wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

Theo Bekkers wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote:

But once you ride only on dedicated off road cycle paths, then the
risk plummets,
How so? The majority of cycle accidents don't involve another vehicle.
Roadways are filled with very predictable motor vehicle traffic, not those
wildly unpredictable pedestrians and dogs.




If Oppie was a young fella of 25 now, would he be seen on the roads?
Of course he would, what a silly question.

Maybe he would have played tennis.

Oppi could have been lots of things.

So could you be, were you to live again.

But while watching a mountain stage on TV,
when Cadel was struggling upwards,
I distincly saw a figure briefly,
and riding close alongside,
and wispering some encouragment,
'twas the ghost of Oppie,
and then he was gone...

That wasn't the ghost of Oppie, that was one of those crazy drunk
spectators yelling at him.

Said grey figure was on Malvern Star.

Patrick Turner.

Dorfus

Resound wrote:



"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
In most Oz city roads, sharing narrow lanes on busy roads with
oafish
drivers is a nightmare.

But on Canberra's cycle paths its utterly different.
There simply isn't anything that will kill you.

Quite a few cyclist have died on roads in the ACT,
but I doubt a single one on the cycle paths in 30 +years.
My eyes tell me more ride the paths than ride the roads.
Patrick Turner.

It's not what's on the path that'll kill you (although dodging
children, dogs and other oblivious pedestrians walking 4 abreast
drives me up the wall when I try it)

I've got used to the human/dog obstructions.

it's what's on the road at the
uncontrolled intersections between bike path and road that'll do it. I
don't have a citation (although I suspect Euan might) but from memory
it's entering traffic from a bike path that is most dangerous and
which accounts for a significant percentage of injuries and deaths for
cyclists.

OK, but here one has to enter traffic with care.
One has to watch like a hawk what's happening wherever a bike path
crosses a road. Its the cyclists responsibility to avoid a prang.
If I ride right across town, about 45k, and try to stay on as many
cycle paths as possible, then about 15% is perhaps on roads with bike
lanes,
and maybe there are 20 places where I have to cross roads.
I must stop and start a lot. I have to look around and double check.
One error, and its goodbye charlie.

The risk taken by staying on paths 85% of the time is much less than if
stayed on roads all the time, even with cycle lanes.

I once used to ride 135km from Watson to Corin Dam and back, a heck of a
ride, maybe I'd be out for
5 hours, and mostly on narrow country roads in the hills behind
Canberra.
But that's where a few ppl have been killed, despite traffic that isn't
busy.

The fact is that there IS RISK everywhere one goes.

Take care,

Patrick Turner.

Aeek wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:41:05 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Often I have beaten buses going from Watson where I live to civic,
but mainly because they stop more often.

If I drive to Woden in peak hour, its much shorter than riding.

Ah, your Canberra isn't my Canberra. You actually have a grid of
somewhat straight back streets. At least in Aranda, my trunk roads are
straight. I found a straight backway using link paths. Never again,
way too scarey! Especially accessing the path on the outside of a
corner. I'm be encouraged to cross where I can't see what's coming?
No thanks. Newer suburbs are even worse.

So what your're saying is that all the windy bendy roundy go
street layouts are a PITA.
Well yeah, and motorists also can't see around corners.
They tend to go slower.

As long as one is aware of what a motorist cannot see, you'll be OK.

I am quite happiest riding from the lake up to Cook and that part on the
cycle
paths and the tunnels under the main roads. Tunnels need to be
approached with caution because
someone might be on the wrong side and you won't react in time if you
go too fast. So slow down.

I find Canberra's cycle paths to be quite tolerable. But I have no idea
of what cycle paths are like elsewhere on the globe because I never
travel.
So I cannot know how they could be drastically improved in the best way.
I don't have a manual for cycle path implementaion policies.

I am used to the paths, and I don't expect them to be perfect.
I'm thinking of getting a mountain bike, but methinks my knees wouldn't
agree.

And in Aranda and Cook there's lots of hills, and
I don't let myself descend too fast because I wouldn't be able to stop
fast if I needed to for a motorist who didn't see me.

But one doesn't get fit descending hills, so
braking on descents doesn't matter.

Red Hill is a nasty little steep climb a kilometre long.
Anyone freewheeling down with no brakes has to pass the exit to the golf
course
1/2 way, and then try to stop at the roundabout at the bottom.
The two things are potential dangers, but not if you apply gentle
braking
all the way down the mountain.
I thought I was heating my brakes a lot, but after coming down one day
I felt the brakes and they were quite cool, and no rim heat.
The rim acts as a large air cooled heatsink.

I have never felt in danger cycling around the back streets of Aranda,
Cook, and Hawker
just to get the benefits of the hill climbing, and I've never reached
your conclusions
about paths in the general area. Its a nice part of Canberra, and
usually very little traffic.
But I try to keep off Belconnen Way though.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner wrote:

The trick question is, how many cars are there and how many cyclists
are there on Canberra's roads at any given time on average 24/7?

There are now around 110,000 households in Canberra, and about 330,000
ppl,
and don't tell me 330,000 cars could be driven towards Civic if everyone
wanted to.

This is just my point Pat. There wouldn't be that many cars heading to
Civic at any one time. Hence, cylists are clearly a lot more than 0.5%
of total traffic just heading into Civic of a morning between 7:30 and
9:00. Unfortunatley PP don't collect data for other traffic but it seems
clear that there is a substantial and growing number of cyclists on
Canberra's roads during peak periods.


Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Patrick Turner wrote:

I spend half my life reading and studying and figuring.

And the other half posting to a.b?

And I think that compared to many other people
whose pots I read and whose newspaper letters and articles I read,
that mine are rather brief.

Maybe the case for newspaper letters, but certainly not for a.b. We all
have rather short attention spans around here! :-)

How much do you read?

As little as possible

What flows from your reading?

A whopping headache usually!

--
Bean


Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Patrick Turner wrote:

The average age of death in Oz is much less than 91.

The question is clearly what is the average age at death (as you put it)
for the average Australian who doesn't ride a bike, compared to the
average Australian who rides a bike. Sure, it's no gurantee that it will
make you live longer but the hope is that on average a cyclists
longevity is increased over his fat-arsed compatriots.

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Patrick Turner wrote:
stuff about his knees

Not to sound too flippant Pat, but a good series of appropriate
stretches could well help. Most of us have suffered knee pain of some
sort as a result of cycling and in most cases it's down to tight ITB's
or other knee realted ligaments and muscles. I'm just recovering from 2
months off the bike due to knee pain now.

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Patrick Turner wrote:

Never barrel on through a situation you feel could be dodgy.
That's when **** happens :-[

Agreed absolutely.

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

EuanB wrote:
Patrick Turner Wrote:

But not if you have dodgy knees or some other ailment that does not
respond well to vigourous exercise.

Last October I smashed my leg up. I drove the shin bone through the
knee in to the thigh bone, shattering the top of the shin bone and
caused extensive damage to the meniscous. The term for the injury is
a tibial palteau, otherwise known as a fender bender.

Ouch, and ouch.

Cycling is a great activity for people with dodgy joints. Adult
tircycles lend mobility to the old and infirm who would otherwise be
dependent on cars. Electric bicycles augment this.

I really wish you'd stop guessing and do some research before posting
drivel.

Not much chance of that.

Theo

cfsmtb wrote:
Theo Bekkers Wrote:

The exact opposite is true. The increase in life expectancy through
improved
health far outweighs the risks of riding.

Linky http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/c.../view/204/147/

Interesting that Aussie Rules hhas twice the hospitalisation rate of rugby.

Theo