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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
Hello,
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most recent Critical Mass on the group. It was my first CM, and certainly an interesting experience. However, it was very stop-start and slow, in part down to the actions of the police. They issued at least 2 on-the-spot fines for red light jumping and were warning people about not having lights. I'm told there were other tickets issued as well, including at least 3 for not having lights. The odd thing was that later on, they were waving people through red lights, and I even heard the megaphone on the police van telling people to move through. Is this normal? I thought that the mass was meant to go through red lights if the "head" of it went through on green - it keeps it all together (for safety) and keeps it flowing (for minimal impact on other traffic). Surely there should be either a policeman on every red light directing traffic ("stop here" or "go on through"), or a consistent policy - either "stop at all lights/go through all lights" or "stop unless told otherwise"/"go unless told otherwise". Personally I have two lights both front and back, and have recently fitted a rear reflector (I'm not getting a £30 fine for the sake of a reflector) that my local bike shop kindly gave to me free. I was so pleased I bought an inner tube from them on the spot. Anyway, I thought I would bring it up to stimulate some discussion. -- Alex Pounds (Creature) .~. http://www.alexpounds.com/ /V\ http://www.ethicsgirls.com/ // \\ "Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\ ^`~'^ |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
Creature wrote on 28/01/2007 12:48 +0100:
Is this normal? I thought that the mass was meant to go through red lights if the "head" of it went through on green - it keeps it all together (for safety) and keeps it flowing (for minimal impact on other traffic). Surely there should be either a policeman on every red light directing traffic ("stop here" or "go on through"), or a consistent policy - either "stop at all lights/go through all lights" or "stop unless told otherwise"/"go unless told otherwise". Do you expect a line of cars to go through on red just because the first one has? Do you expect every traffic light to have a policeman on during rush hour to direct traffic? Either Critical Mass is a spontaneous event, as participants try to claim, in which case riders should look after themselves and obey the laws or its an organised event in which case the organisers will have notified the police so appropriate policing can be done. You can't have it both ways. Personally I have two lights both front and back, and have recently fitted a rear reflector (I'm not getting a £30 fine for the sake of a reflector) that my local bike shop kindly gave to me free. I was so pleased I bought an inner tube from them on the spot. Anyway, I thought I would bring it up to stimulate some discussion. No discussion needed. -- Tony "...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate..." Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0000, Rob Morley wrote:
It's always illegal to go through a red light unless the light is faulty or you are instructed to do so by a police officer (or you're letting an emergency services vehicle through), so I don't know why you're surprised at that. I'm surprised because I thought the idea was to keep it in one big, moving group as much as possible. I understood that the front of the mass was meant to obey traffic signals, but if a green light changed to red than the group should follow it through. That way impact on car traffic is minimised and the group stays together, making it easier to manage, safer, and quicker. My main issue is with conflicting signals from the police. They were stopping some junctions and waving people through, and expecting people to obey others. At one point I saw a policewoman waving people through some lights while another police rider was stopped and waiting for them to change. With conflicting signals like that, what are you supposed to do? What worthwhile discussion can be had? Some suggestions: * Is this the right way for the police to tackle these issues? * Are there better areas for the police to focus their attention? * Is it right to tackle some people for this behaviour and not others? * Should some people receive a warning only, and others a ticket? * Should the police be more tolerant or should CM change its behaviour? * Can CM change its behaviour, given that there are no leaders? * Is CM a good thing or a bad thing? Why? * Is CM worth bothering with? Why? * Does this represent a chance in tactics for the police with regards to Critical Mass? If so, does it matter, and is it warranted? Maybe you can come up with your own ideas. Or not, if the topic bores you. As mentioned, I had not been on a critical mass before. I wasn't sure if it was for me, or if it would be fun, or if it was even a good idea. I'm still undecided. Thus I don't feel right opining on the issue, but other people with more experience and different viewpoints may have something interesting to say. -- Alex Pounds (Creature) .~. http://www.alexpounds.com/ /V\ http://www.ethicsgirls.com/ // \\ "Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\ ^`~'^ |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
Creature wrote on 28/01/2007 13:36 +0100:
My main issue is with conflicting signals from the police. They were stopping some junctions and waving people through, and expecting people to obey others. At one point I saw a policewoman waving people through some lights while another police rider was stopped and waiting for them to change. With conflicting signals like that, what are you supposed to do? Not conflicting at all. The law says you stop at a red light unless instructed otherwise by a police officer. So stop at the red lights unless there is a police officer there telling you to do otherwise. Quite simple really and just like the rest of the time. -- Tony "...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate..." Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
Creature typed:
They issued at least 2 on-the-spot fines for red light jumping and were warning people about not having lights. I'm told there were other tickets issued as well, including at least 3 for not having lights. Which is fair enough as they are legal requirements. The odd thing was that later on, they were waving people through red lights, and I even heard the megaphone on the police van telling people to move through. Is this normal? Yup. Red light means stop, unless instructed otherwise by the Police. I thought that the mass was meant to go through red lights if the "head" of it went through on green You thought wrong. Just 'cos you think something should be done doesn't mean it will be. CM is supposed to be a 'spontaneous event' so can't really be expected to be organised fully. Any rider who joins ought to be aware that an event like this will attract Police attention so it's prety damn stupid to do something illegal, especially something as simple as lights ... -- Paul - xxx |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Creature
gently breathed: On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0000, Rob Morley wrote: It's always illegal to go through a red light unless the light is faulty or you are instructed to do so by a police officer (or you're letting an emergency services vehicle through), so I don't know why you're surprised at that. I'm surprised because I thought the idea was to keep it in one big, moving group as much as possible. I understood that the front of the mass was meant to obey traffic signals, but if a green light changed to red than the group should follow it through. That way impact on car traffic is minimised and the group stays together, making it easier to manage, safer, and quicker. Where does this idea come from - is it stated by the police? Are there any organisers for the events who state this? If it's a disorganised mass of cyclists all riding the same route, then they should act as individuals and stop when the lights change. Yes, that breaks things up, but it also more effectively demonstrates to non-cyclists that cyclists are traffic just like cars are. The broken up clumps will mostly join back up again later on anyway. -- - DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net Broadband, Dialup, Domains = http://www.wytches.net = The UK's Pagan ISP! http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
"Rob Morley" wrote in message t... In article , Creature says... Snip It's always illegal to go through a red light unless the light is faulty or you are instructed to do so by a police officer (or you're letting an emergency services vehicle through), so I don't know why you're surprised at that. It's always illegal to ride at night without lights, so any CM participants who do so are clearly plonkers. What worthwhile discussion can be had? I seem to recall that drivers have been fined for crossing red lights to let an emergency vehicle through. Ken. |
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
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Police behaviour on January's Critical Mass, London
"Creature" wrote
I'm surprised because I thought the idea was to keep it in one big, moving group as much as possible. I understood that the front of the mass was meant to obey traffic signals, but if a green light changed to red than the group should follow it through. Hmmm. Interesting concept. We could make a new rule of the road - you can continue past a red light as long as the vehicle in front hasn't cleared the junction. |
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