Too close call, with a possible lesson

On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing. Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella. If somebody
hadn't yelled out "DON'T TURN!!!" one of our guys, Karl, would quite
possibly have been road-kill this morning. We had already said "car
back" shortly before, so people knew at that point that we should be
taking the lane and signaling to make our intention clear. I've been
riding these same roads for literally 40+ years now and I have never,
ever seen something like this before.

The interesting thing here is that somebody in our group (Billy) was
thinking quickly enough to yell "DON'T TURN" instead of a
more-instinctive "car" or whatever. Karl had likely assumed that he was
safe to turn, being at the front of a large group, and had no idea
whatsoever that a car would pass in such a dangerous fashion. Not
dangerous, but absolutely positively deadly.

No, we didn't get a license plate; the car was easily doing 35 and we
were probably doing 10 as we prepared to make the left-hand turn. It was
so unreal that nobody even thought to chase her down anyway; it's
possible someone could have caught up to her at the Kings/84
intersection.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Mike Jacoubowsky" writes:

On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing. Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella.

I'm glad to hear that no one was hurt.

This is another example of a stupid, careless driver. Every day
on my commute, I turn left from West Bayshore (in Palo Alto CA)
onto Loma Verde. This turn is immediately preceded by a series
of signs that say: SLOW, CONSTRUCTION ZONE, TRUCK CROSSING, BIKE
LANE, WATCH FOR PEDS, SHARE THE ROAD. And, still, even though I
am in the middle of the lane and signaling a left turn, I
regularly get cars blowing by me on the left. They are reckless
enough that I look behind me before I extend my hand to the left
because I don't want a vehicle taking my arm off!
--
"I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes
I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."
--Mark Twain

On Jul 2, 5:10 pm, Ben Pfaff wrote:
"Mike Jacoubowsky" writes:
On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing. Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella.

I'm glad to hear that no one was hurt.

This is another example of a stupid, careless driver. Every day
on my commute, I turn left from West Bayshore (in Palo Alto CA)
onto Loma Verde. This turn is immediately preceded by a series
of signs that say: SLOW, CONSTRUCTION ZONE, TRUCK CROSSING, BIKE
LANE, WATCH FOR PEDS, SHARE THE ROAD. And, still, even though I
am in the middle of the lane and signaling a left turn, I
regularly get cars blowing by me on the left. They are reckless
enough that I look behind me before I extend my hand to the left
because I don't want a vehicle taking my arm off!
--
"I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes
I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."
--Mark Twain

Reply:
I'm glad no one got hurt or likely road-killed. But, I'm glad
this was posted because I was beginning to think that I was the only
one who chronically has to cope with drivers blowing by me on the left
when I'm in the left lane, signally a left turn, and the idiots blow
right by me, on the left, sometimes moving into the oncoming traffic
lane! Duh! Or, they'll pass on my right, and turn left right in
front of me as I'm trying to get to the far, right side of the road,
out of their way. Why is it that they don't can't spare the two or
three seconds it takes for us to move ahead (just as a car would) and
make our turn (just like a car)? Two or three lost seconds is going
to irretrievably alter their life course?
I used to think that about 10% of the drivers on the road should
never have been given a license to drive, but now I'm thinking that
the percentage is closer to 40% who shouldn't be granted the privilege
of driving.
JMHO. Lansing, MI -- Armpit of the cycling universe.

Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc

On Jul 2, 3:27*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing. Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella. If somebody
hadn't yelled out "DON'T TURN!!!" one of our guys, Karl, would quite
possibly have been road-kill this morning. We had already said "car
back" shortly before, so people knew at that point that we should be
taking the lane and signaling to make our intention clear. I've been
riding these same roads for literally 40+ years now and I have never,
ever seen something like this before.

The interesting thing here is that somebody in our group (Billy) was
thinking quickly enough to yell "DON'T TURN" instead of a
more-instinctive "car" or whatever. Karl had likely assumed that he was
safe to turn, being at the front of a large group, and had no idea
whatsoever that a car would pass in such a dangerous fashion. Not
dangerous, but absolutely positively deadly.

No, we didn't get a license plate; the car was easily doing 35 and we
were probably doing 10 as we prepared to make the left-hand turn. It was
so unreal that nobody even thought to chase her down anyway; it's
possible someone could have caught up to her at the Kings/84
intersection.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

=========
"Big Jim" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc
=========

The point wasn't that it was a "near miss." The point is that it was an
unusual action by somebody in our group that may have prevented
something very, very bad. We tend to think of a "near miss" as either a
random circumstance or something beyond our ability to deal with. This
was something that was very effectively dealt with. Something others
might learn from.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Big Jim" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc

On Jul 2, 3:27 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions
and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing.
Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella. If somebody
hadn't yelled out "DON'T TURN!!!" one of our guys, Karl, would quite
possibly have been road-kill this morning. We had already said "car
back" shortly before, so people knew at that point that we should be
taking the lane and signaling to make our intention clear. I've been
riding these same roads for literally 40+ years now and I have never,
ever seen something like this before.

The interesting thing here is that somebody in our group (Billy) was
thinking quickly enough to yell "DON'T TURN" instead of a
more-instinctive "car" or whatever. Karl had likely assumed that he
was
safe to turn, being at the front of a large group, and had no idea
whatsoever that a car would pass in such a dangerous fashion. Not
dangerous, but absolutely positively deadly.

No, we didn't get a license plate; the car was easily doing 35 and we
were probably doing 10 as we prepared to make the left-hand turn. It
was
so unreal that nobody even thought to chase her down anyway; it's
possible someone could have caught up to her at the Kings/84
intersection.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On Jul 3, 11:34*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
========="Big Jim" wrote in message

...
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. *How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc
=========

The point wasn't that it was a "near miss." The point is that it was an
unusual action by somebody in our group that may have prevented
something very, very bad. We tend to think of a "near miss" as either a
random circumstance or something beyond our ability to deal with. This
was something that was very effectively dealt with. Something others
might learn from.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Big Jim" wrote in message

...
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. *How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc

On Jul 2, 3:27 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions
and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing.
Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella. If somebody
hadn't yelled out "DON'T TURN!!!" one of our guys, Karl, would quite
possibly have been road-kill this morning. We had already said "car
back" shortly before, so people knew at that point that we should be
taking the lane and signaling to make our intention clear. I've been
riding these same roads for literally 40+ years now and I have never,
ever seen something like this before.

The interesting thing here is that somebody in our group (Billy) was
thinking quickly enough to yell "DON'T TURN" instead of a
more-instinctive "car" or whatever. Karl had likely assumed that he
was
safe to turn, being at the front of a large group, and had no idea
whatsoever that a car would pass in such a dangerous fashion. Not
dangerous, but absolutely positively deadly.

No, we didn't get a license plate; the car was easily doing 35 and we
were probably doing 10 as we prepared to make the left-hand turn. It
was
so unreal that nobody even thought to chase her down anyway; it's
possible someone could have caught up to her at the Kings/84
intersection.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike, don't take this as being an apologist for the driver, but I'm
curious about a couple more factors.

It seems clear that this did not involve a left turn lane - correct?

Were the riders at the rear of the pack actively signalling a left
turn when the driver overtook?

The only reason I ask this is to understand the situation, not to make
excuses for the driver. But, I COULD envision a situation where the
riders were taking the lane to make the turn, but there was not an
actual left turn lane involved. The riders signalled the left turn,
but as they began to actually brake to slow down, nobody was
signalling any longer (which is perfectly legal of course - you can't
signal and use hand brakes at the same time).

The driver approaches and either didn't see the hand signal (no excuse
for that - driver simply WRONG).... or approached after the signal had
been given, but was no longer being given due to the braking/slowing
and the need for riders to keep both hands on the bars.

Driver then thinks it is simply a pack of riders riding slowly in the
lane (which is perfectly legal of course), but does not realize they
were about to make a left turn. He/she moves completely into the
oncoming lane to make what he/she thinks is a safe, appropriate pass,
just as he/she would do if overtaking a slow moving vehicle that is
not showing a turn signal.

Again, I'm NOT attempting to challenge the rider's actions, but just
envisioning a situation where an honest miscommunication between the
riders' intentions and the driver's intentions almost ended up in a
horrible accident.

I am very very glad that the riders toward the back of the pack were
experienced enough NOT TO ASSUME anything and to check again and see
the driver making the unsafe pass. That is exactly the right way to
ride and what separates experienced road riders from inexperienced
ones - the assumption that "if anything CAN go wrong, it will."

On Jul 6, 9:12*am, Camilo wrote:
On Jul 3, 11:34*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:



========="Big Jim" wrote in message

....
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. *How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc
=========

The point wasn't that it was a "near miss." The point is that it was an
unusual action by somebody in our group that may have prevented
something very, very bad. We tend to think of a "near miss" as either a
random circumstance or something beyond our ability to deal with. This
was something that was very effectively dealt with. Something others
might learn from.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Big Jim" wrote in message

....
Glad to hear everyone is ok but a near miss doesnt count. *How many
near accidents do we get into in our cars- people texting, talking,
drunk etc

On Jul 2, 3:27 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

On our regular Tuesday/Thursday ride this morning, there were about 10
of us heading in the "downhill" direction on Kings Mtn Road, preparing
to make the left turn onto Manuella. We had signaled our intentions
and
it really couldn't be much more clear what we were doing.
Nevertheless,
a black sedan overtook us, without warning, driving entirely in the
oncoming traffic lane, and passed us exactly at Manuella. If somebody
hadn't yelled out "DON'T TURN!!!" one of our guys, Karl, would quite
possibly have been road-kill this morning. We had already said "car
back" shortly before, so people knew at that point that we should be
taking the lane and signaling to make our intention clear. I've been
riding these same roads for literally 40+ years now and I have never,
ever seen something like this before.

The interesting thing here is that somebody in our group (Billy) was
thinking quickly enough to yell "DON'T TURN" instead of a
more-instinctive "car" or whatever. Karl had likely assumed that he
was
safe to turn, being at the front of a large group, and had no idea
whatsoever that a car would pass in such a dangerous fashion. Not
dangerous, but absolutely positively deadly.

No, we didn't get a license plate; the car was easily doing 35 and we
were probably doing 10 as we prepared to make the left-hand turn. It
was
so unreal that nobody even thought to chase her down anyway; it's
possible someone could have caught up to her at the Kings/84
intersection.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike, don't take this as being an apologist for the driver, but I'm
curious about a couple more factors.

It seems clear that this did not involve a left turn lane - correct?

Were the riders at the rear of the pack actively signalling a left
turn when the driver overtook?

The only reason I ask this is to understand the situation, not to make
excuses for the driver. But, I COULD envision a situation where the
riders were taking the lane to make the turn, but there was not an
actual left turn lane involved. *The riders signalled the left turn,
but as they began to actually brake to slow down, nobody was
signalling any longer (which is perfectly legal of course - you can't
signal and use hand brakes at the same time).

The driver approaches and either didn't see the hand signal (no excuse
for that - driver simply WRONG).... or approached after the signal had
been given, but was no longer being given due to the braking/slowing
and the need for riders to keep both hands on the bars.

Driver then thinks it is simply a pack of riders riding slowly in the
lane (which is perfectly legal of course), but does not realize they
were about to make a left turn. *He/she moves completely into the
oncoming lane to make what he/she thinks is a safe, appropriate pass,
just as he/she would do if overtaking a slow moving vehicle that is
not showing a turn signal.

Again, I'm NOT attempting to challenge the rider's actions, but just
envisioning a situation where an honest miscommunication between the
riders' intentions and the driver's intentions almost ended up in a
horrible accident.

I am very very glad that the riders toward the back of the pack were
experienced enough NOT TO ASSUME anything and to check again and see
the driver making the unsafe pass. *That is exactly the right way to
ride and what separates experienced road riders from inexperienced
ones - the assumption that "if anything CAN go wrong, it will."

Oh, another point I intended to make as a takeaway from your
experience - for those that aren't used to riding in a paceline or
pack in traffic, it is very important for one or two people at the
rear to back to take responsibility for making sure (as sure as is
possible) that overtaking drivers are aware of the upcoming turn. They
need to think ahead and back off a little so that they can maintain a
safe distance from the rest of the pack so they can keep that hand
signal out there as long as possible, at least to the point where
people up front begin the turn if at all possible. The also need to do
what riders in this pack did - make sure the overtaking drivers don't
make any boneheaded moves like this one. One deficiency in hand
signals in traffic is that it is often very difficult or impossible to
maintain the signal as you're actually braking and beginning your
turn, especially in a pack where you have other riders' slowing to
deal with.

"Camilo" wrote in message
...

All of your advice is sound but Mike and his pals are very experienced
riders and know what they're doing. If he says that it was a close call
that's what it was. I know that my brother was riding along Skyline, looked
back near a high spot in the road and then started to make a u-turn and a
couple of motorcycles came up WELL over the speed limit. One of them went
down pretty hard though luckily he missed my brother by an inch.

Skyline intermittently becomes very dangerous and has a series of very bad
crashes which scares the idiots for a short while and then the ride is safe.
Then since idiots can't remember danger for any period of time they shortly
are back to their old ways of using Skyline as a road racing route for high
speed motorcycles and sports cars.

I've finally tried to stay off of there as much as possible except where
there's usually a lot of traffic which tends to slow down the idiots though
you still see them passing over a double yellow line around blind turns.

In ba.bicycles Camilo wrote:
He/she moves completely into the
oncoming lane to make what he/she thinks is a safe, appropriate pass,
just as he/she would do if overtaking a slow moving vehicle that is
not showing a turn signal.

This might be a reasonable assumption were it not for several conditions that
preclude safe passing in the manner described on this stretch of road.

This section of road has connecting driveways on both sides, is striped with a
double yellow line, and, as Mike said, the group was preparing to turn left onto a
connecting road (Manuella). Nowhere is it legal to pass on the opposite side of
a road through an intersection. The intersection with Manuella is especially
dangerous because visibility for traffic coming from Manuella is blocked by large
trees.

I don't know where Mike has been all these years, but I see this kind of rude,
headstrong and illegal driving, both as a driver and as a cyclist, more frequently
in and around Woodside.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

"Bill Bushnell" wrote in message
...

I don't know where Mike has been all these years, but I see this kind of
rude,
headstrong and illegal driving, both as a driver and as a cyclist, more
frequently
in and around Woodside.

I have been run off the road or threatened by motorists going by one way or
the other more times in Woodside than in all of the rest of my riding put
together.

I was pushed off of the road by a Highway Patrolman in Woodside on Sandhill
Rd. on one occasion for no apparent reason. When he realized what he'd done
he took off before I could ID his car.