Steel bars

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium with
a cromoly rigid fork. I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40 mile
rides on rough country roads/trails regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb.
Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which
talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some
buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit
ground shock straight into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel
and so had assumed that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would
probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as they would have a
little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be wrong.

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the
numbness in my hands (the seatpost is already aluminium) or would just
getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Kind Regards,
Paul.

Hello Paul,

Numbness in the hands is usually due to pressure on the nerve bundle at the base
of your palm. These are the same nerves that are involved in carpal tunnel
syndrome. I've heard that good riding gloves can help. Soft grips too. Try
altering your riding position such that less of your weight is carried by your
arms.

As far as the steel vs. aluminum debate, can we all say bogus? Its true that
aluminum has a lower modulus of elasticity, but it is still of such a large
value, that there would be no perceptable difference in "shock transmission".

Mike L.

Paul wrote:

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium with
a cromoly rigid fork. I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40 mile
rides on rough country roads/trails regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb.
Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which
talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some
buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit
ground shock straight into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel
and so had assumed that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would
probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as they would have a
little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be wrong.

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the
numbness in my hands (the seatpost is already aluminium) or would just
getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Kind Regards,
Paul.

In article , "Paul"
writes:

Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which
talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some
buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit
ground shock straight into the bones.

One wonders that a writer could write and an editor would pass an opinion like
that. What perceptable difference could a different metal alloy make in the
compression of a tube?

I think the bit you've read about Al frames being more "unforgiving compared
to steel" comes from the very ridgid oversized Al tubing bikes (as in
Cannondale) that caused the writers working for buycycling type magazines to
sniff about "harsh rides," for lack of anything better to sniff about.

The comments about gloves are right on. Also consider some kind of "climbing
bars" to give yourself alternative hand positions.

Tom Gibb

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:55:19 +0100, "Paul" wrote:

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium with
a cromoly rigid fork. I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40 mile
rides on rough country roads/trails regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb.
Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which
talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some
buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit
ground shock straight into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel
and so had assumed that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would
probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as they would have a
little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be wrong.

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the
numbness in my hands (the seatpost is already aluminium) or would just
getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Kind Regards,
Paul.


I don't think that the steel bars are the problem. From my experience
with long road/trail rides on mountain bikes, the problem is the flat
bars and no place to move my hands. Bar ends and switching position
and posture often helps.

Also, numb hands are often caused by fit problems. Too much weight
forward because the stem or top tube is too long, the handlebars are
too low, or the saddle is tilted slightly forward requiring constant
weight on the hands to push yourself back onto the saddle. If you
*have* to have a tight grip on the bars all the time, if you can't
basically let go of the bars in some positions (just loosen your grip
until your hands float around the bar), then you will have hand
problems on long road/trail rides and you need to change your setup.

Somehow figure out how to take pressure off your hands, relax your
grip, and move around.

Here in the Southeast we have what I call "40 grit roads". These
arecomposed of 3/4" gravel layed and smoothed (term used very loosely)
on top of a tar base.

The result is like riding for miles on a bike equipped with magic
fingers. Not fun. Even with fat tires this vibration can effect your
entire body, even in an automobile you can sometimes feel it!

What I did was to get a sprung saddle and a SoftRide stem. No more
fatigue!

May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris

Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

I do move my hand position around a lot on long rides and take them off the
bars altogether now and then, when riding relaxed I tend to just drape them
over the brake hoods. It was just reading the advice about steel bars being
bad that made me think. My hands don't go numb as such but do tend to tingle
at after 30-40miles. Bar ends and thicker grips sound a good idea.

How much weight on the hands is normal? As a relative beginner a lot of my
setting up has been done according to internet advice and a bit of trial and
error. I'd read somewhere that it was better to spread your weight between
both the saddle and bars. I ride recreationally and have a fairly upright
position (at a guess probably about 70 degrees to the ground) with weight
distribution mostly but not exclusively on the saddle. It's a fairly
stretched but comfortable position with a slight bend at the elbows. Does
this sound ok or am I doing something fundementally wrong? I have no
problems with knee, elbows or anything else.

Thanks again for any thoughts,
Kind Regards,
Paul.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:16:07 +0100, "Paul" wrote:

I do move my hand position around a lot on long rides and take them off the
bars altogether now and then, when riding relaxed I tend to just drape them
over the brake hoods. It was just reading the advice about steel bars being
bad that made me think. My hands don't go numb as such but do tend to tingle
at after 30-40miles. Bar ends and thicker grips sound a good idea.


Yep, the bar ends and different grips should be helpful. One thing
that bar ends do is allow you to turn your palms to the inside, which
is a much more relaxed way to hold your hands and lower arms.

You might also check the angle of your brake levers. It seems that
many levers are turned close to horizontal. This makes you have to
roll your wrists backwards to use the levers, which is hard on the
wrists.

How much weight on the hands is normal? As a relative beginner a lot of my
setting up has been done according to internet advice and a bit of trial and
error. I'd read somewhere that it was better to spread your weight between
both the saddle and bars. I ride recreationally and have a fairly upright
position (at a guess probably about 70 degrees to the ground) with weight
distribution mostly but not exclusively on the saddle. It's a fairly
stretched but comfortable position with a slight bend at the elbows. Does
this sound ok or am I doing something fundementally wrong? I have no
problems with knee, elbows or anything else.

Thanks again for any thoughts,
Kind Regards,
Paul.



If everything else is feeling good and the slight numbness is the only
problem, you are probably in a pretty good position. I'd just play
with different positions, and pay attention to what you are really
doing with your hands. Relax them, keep your shoulders relaxed, etc.
Bar ends, gloves, grips.... Try one at a time and see what happens?
Others mentioned fatter tires and lower tire pressure, which will mean
less force and tension fighting the front wheel over bumps, etc.

Look at the handlebar width, also. I have one flat bar bike with bars
two inches shorter than another one, and I find them more comfortable
to have my hands closer to parallel rather than splayed outwards.
Maybe slide the levers and shifter inwards an inch or so and see if it
feels any better?

No one has mentioned it, and maybe for very good reasons, but about
the only way I can see a steel bar affecting your hands is because of
the extra weight in the steering mechanism. More force needed to keep
it under control?

By the way, if the numbness doesn't disappear within an hour or so
after a ride, that's not a good sign. Search out more information if
it continues.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:55:19 +0100, Paul wrote:

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb.
Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which
talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands, the same mag. had
some buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts
and bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they
transmit ground shock straight into the bones.

Absolute horse****. Yeah, they will transmit "ground shock". So will
aluminum. In much the same way. They get away with this nonesense since
all steel bars and seatposts are cheap components, and so replacing them
_looks_ like an upgrade.

Sure aluminum is lighter. That is its big advantage. Leave it at that.


I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to
steel and so had assumed that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would
probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as they would have a
little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be
wrong.

Only if you tend to believe someone who is trying to sell you something.

Steel may have a little more flex than alloy, but it will be miniscule
either way. You want more comfort? Take 5lbs pressure out of your tires.


Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the
numbness in my hands (the seatpost is already aluminium) or would just
getting some thicker grips do the job?

Get the grips, but also get some bar-ends. Having more hand positions
helps a lot.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

Chalo wrote in message
om...
Mike Lewis wrote:

As far as the steel vs. aluminum debate, can we all say bogus? Its true
that
aluminum has a lower modulus of elasticity, but it is still of such a
large
value, that there would be no perceptable difference in "shock
transmission".

It ain't necessarily so. Your statement is generally true for frames,
which are triangulated and which tend to use tube diameters
appropriate to their materials.

However, a handlebar and a seatpost are constrained as to their
respective diameters; they will measure the same regardless of
material. Also, they are loaded as simple beams, unreinforced for
their overhanging lengths (excepting cross-braced handlebars).

If you take a 6 foot length of aluminum tubing in the diameter and
thickness of a handlebar, support both ends and push on it in the
middle, you can easily make it flex. A lot. The stiffness of a beam
is inversely proportional to the cube of its length, so a
handlebar-length tube will flex much less (close order of 27 times
less), but still significantly. For any given amount of load, the
deflection in a thin-walled aluminum bar can be larger than that of a
rubber handgrip. It's one of the reasons I avoid drop bars-- all
their waggling around gives me the willies.

In equal wall thicknesses (and these are more equal than you'd think,
considering today's lightest aluminum handlebars), an aluminum bar
will flex 3 times more than a steel one. This goes a long way towards
attenuating peak shock loads at the grips.

I use very long seatposts, and I find that the "bounce" in such a
seatpost is usually quite noticeable. So elastic modulus should have
its effect there, too.

Chalo Colina

Well, I still believe it's pure Tolkien, so 'ner'.



Shaun aRe