White Lightning vs Pedros Ice Wax?

Carl Fogel wrote:

Matt Locker wrote in message ...


Joel:

I personally think White Lightning is the worst stuff you can put on
your chain. I generally use Ice Wax on my bikes and am happy with the
results. WL seemed to be good for about 10 miles if lucky before the
drive train started making noise, even when applied the day before the
ride. Ice Wax seems to be good up to century distances. If you're
riding more then you may want to use a traditional lube. Finish Line
Century Lube is the best for long rainy rides but it makes the
drivetrain NASTY over time. FWIW, I've found it best to apply a light
coat of oil to the chain the first time before using the Ice Wax, and
then maybe a couple times during the riding season. I believe the oil
is a better lube & that the Ice Wax on top of it helps protect the
inners from the environmental crud (dirt, mud, ...). I wipe the chain
with an old sock before adding new Ice Wax. That brings up the other
issue with WL. WL transforms into a brick-like substance as time goes
by. I had to use a pick to get it off my tandem cogs when I was using
it. Ice Wax stays fairly soft and is easy to clean out of the nether
regions of the drivetrain.

I ride on the road so YMMV on a mountain bike.

MOO,
Matt

joel roth wrote:



Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice
Wax, or are they basically the same product?

Thanks.

Joel




Dear Matt,

My ignorance of wax is staggering, so please forgive
what may be a silly question.

I thought that the idea was to remove all the oil
and grease from the chain and to replace it with
wax.

But you seem to be saying that you oil your chain
first and then apply Ice Wax.

Does the Ice Wax mix with the oil? I have a vague
notion that it's water-based and am flummoxed by
the idea that oil and water are mixing here. The
wax suffers in the rain, doesn't it?

When my lavishly over-oiled chain meets the rare
rainy day here in Colorado, the normally black
heavy gear oil turns noticeably gray, so some
kind of mixing seems possible.

So do you wax users normally slather wax on
oily chains or clean oil off the chains first?
Does it make much difference in terms of how
well the wax or wax-oil works in the wet?

Carl Fogel


Carl:

My opinion is that it's really not about oil or wax, it's about making
the chain stay clean & quiet. I've found over the 4 or so years that
I've been using IceWax that this combination works well for me. I just
sort of stumbled on the combo treatment but recognized the difference it
made. I use very little oil on the rollers when I first do it, &
usually let it sit for a night before wiping off any excess & then
putting the Ice Wax on. I always give the IceWax at least a night
before I ride, whether it's post oiling or not. I've tried putting
IceWax on a really oily chain but it doesn't seem to work. I suspect
that the excess oil thins the IceWax too much. The small amount that I
put on doesn't do that, or at least it doesn't thin it excessively.

That's what works for me!

MOO,
Matt

try it-its the best I have found in my 20 years of chain
lubing-greasin the links.stop

Matt Locker wrote in message ...
Carl Fogel wrote:

Matt Locker wrote in message ...


Joel:

I personally think White Lightning is the worst stuff you can put on
your chain. I generally use Ice Wax on my bikes and am happy with the
results. WL seemed to be good for about 10 miles if lucky before the
drive train started making noise, even when applied the day before the
ride. Ice Wax seems to be good up to century distances. If you're
riding more then you may want to use a traditional lube. Finish Line
Century Lube is the best for long rainy rides but it makes the
drivetrain NASTY over time. FWIW, I've found it best to apply a light
coat of oil to the chain the first time before using the Ice Wax, and
then maybe a couple times during the riding season. I believe the oil
is a better lube & that the Ice Wax on top of it helps protect the
inners from the environmental crud (dirt, mud, ...). I wipe the chain
with an old sock before adding new Ice Wax. That brings up the other
issue with WL. WL transforms into a brick-like substance as time goes
by. I had to use a pick to get it off my tandem cogs when I was using
it. Ice Wax stays fairly soft and is easy to clean out of the nether
regions of the drivetrain.

I ride on the road so YMMV on a mountain bike.

MOO,
Matt

joel roth wrote:



Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice
Wax, or are they basically the same product?

Thanks.

Joel




Dear Matt,

My ignorance of wax is staggering, so please forgive
what may be a silly question.

I thought that the idea was to remove all the oil
and grease from the chain and to replace it with
wax.

But you seem to be saying that you oil your chain
first and then apply Ice Wax.

Does the Ice Wax mix with the oil? I have a vague
notion that it's water-based and am flummoxed by
the idea that oil and water are mixing here. The
wax suffers in the rain, doesn't it?

When my lavishly over-oiled chain meets the rare
rainy day here in Colorado, the normally black
heavy gear oil turns noticeably gray, so some
kind of mixing seems possible.

So do you wax users normally slather wax on
oily chains or clean oil off the chains first?
Does it make much difference in terms of how
well the wax or wax-oil works in the wet?

Carl Fogel


Carl:

My opinion is that it's really not about oil or wax, it's about making
the chain stay clean & quiet. I've found over the 4 or so years that
I've been using IceWax that this combination works well for me. I just
sort of stumbled on the combo treatment but recognized the difference it
made. I use very little oil on the rollers when I first do it, &
usually let it sit for a night before wiping off any excess & then
putting the Ice Wax on. I always give the IceWax at least a night
before I ride, whether it's post oiling or not. I've tried putting
IceWax on a really oily chain but it doesn't seem to work. I suspect
that the excess oil thins the IceWax too much. The small amount that I
put on doesn't do that, or at least it doesn't thin it excessively.

That's what works for me!

MOO,
Matt

Dear Matt,

Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
is there some other theory involved?

Carl Fogel

It's actually to let the IW set up. If you ride immediately after
lubing the chain, most of it will be flung off.

I'll restate what I said yesterday in a different way since I realized
it wasn't correct. It's not about oil or wax it's about keeping the
chain clean while keeping it lubed. The quiet aspect is a result of the
lube. Durability is a result of the clean. However you do that is the
right way for you. For me, it's the combo treatment.

MOO,
Matt

Carl Fogel wrote:

Matt Locker wrote in message ...


Carl Fogel wrote:



Matt Locker wrote in message ...




Joel:

I personally think White Lightning is the worst stuff you can put on
your chain. I generally use Ice Wax on my bikes and am happy with the
results. WL seemed to be good for about 10 miles if lucky before the
drive train started making noise, even when applied the day before the
ride. Ice Wax seems to be good up to century distances. If you're
riding more then you may want to use a traditional lube. Finish Line
Century Lube is the best for long rainy rides but it makes the
drivetrain NASTY over time. FWIW, I've found it best to apply a light
coat of oil to the chain the first time before using the Ice Wax, and
then maybe a couple times during the riding season. I believe the oil
is a better lube & that the Ice Wax on top of it helps protect the
inners from the environmental crud (dirt, mud, ...). I wipe the chain
with an old sock before adding new Ice Wax. That brings up the other
issue with WL. WL transforms into a brick-like substance as time goes
by. I had to use a pick to get it off my tandem cogs when I was using
it. Ice Wax stays fairly soft and is easy to clean out of the nether
regions of the drivetrain.

I ride on the road so YMMV on a mountain bike.

MOO,
Matt

joel roth wrote:





Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice
Wax, or are they basically the same product?

Thanks.

Joel





Dear Matt,

My ignorance of wax is staggering, so please forgive
what may be a silly question.

I thought that the idea was to remove all the oil
and grease from the chain and to replace it with
wax.

But you seem to be saying that you oil your chain
first and then apply Ice Wax.

Does the Ice Wax mix with the oil? I have a vague
notion that it's water-based and am flummoxed by
the idea that oil and water are mixing here. The
wax suffers in the rain, doesn't it?

When my lavishly over-oiled chain meets the rare
rainy day here in Colorado, the normally black
heavy gear oil turns noticeably gray, so some
kind of mixing seems possible.

So do you wax users normally slather wax on
oily chains or clean oil off the chains first?
Does it make much difference in terms of how
well the wax or wax-oil works in the wet?

Carl Fogel




Carl:

My opinion is that it's really not about oil or wax, it's about making
the chain stay clean & quiet. I've found over the 4 or so years that
I've been using IceWax that this combination works well for me. I just
sort of stumbled on the combo treatment but recognized the difference it
made. I use very little oil on the rollers when I first do it, &
usually let it sit for a night before wiping off any excess & then
putting the Ice Wax on. I always give the IceWax at least a night
before I ride, whether it's post oiling or not. I've tried putting
IceWax on a really oily chain but it doesn't seem to work. I suspect
that the excess oil thins the IceWax too much. The small amount that I
put on doesn't do that, or at least it doesn't thin it excessively.

That's what works for me!

MOO,
Matt



Dear Matt,

Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
is there some other theory involved?

Carl Fogel

(Carl Fogel) wrote:

Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
is there some other theory involved?

The wax-based lubes work by suspending wax particles in an inert
carrier that allows them to run freely into the innards (techie term)
of the chain. The carrier then evaporates, leaving a waxy deposit
behind.

If you don't give the carrier time to evaporate, it will facilitate
the wax escaping from the inside of your chain to the outside (or
maybe to your calf), making the application of lube nearly worthless.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey wrote in message . ..
(Carl Fogel) wrote:

Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
is there some other theory involved?

The wax-based lubes work by suspending wax particles in an inert
carrier that allows them to run freely into the innards (techie term)
of the chain. The carrier then evaporates, leaving a waxy deposit
behind.

If you don't give the carrier time to evaporate, it will facilitate
the wax escaping from the inside of your chain to the outside (or
maybe to your calf), making the application of lube nearly worthless.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles

Dear Mark,

I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
before starting time.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Carl Fogel wrote:
Dear Mark,

I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
before starting time.


Vision?? You mean you've never seen that

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsater" wrote in message ...
Carl Fogel wrote:
Dear Mark,

I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
before starting time.


Vision?? You mean you've never seen that

Dear Perre,

The closest I've come is seeing world champion
trials riders using borrowed hair-dryers to warm
up their cold rubber Dunlop boots on an icy morning.

While out loud I agreed that those pampered sissies
from Europe had finally revealed that they weren't
men enough to compete in Colorado, I secretly
thought that:

a) they could ride rings around us backwards
b) my feet were awfully goddamned cold
c) the women loaning the hair-dryers looked like
splendid mechanics, even if they'd forgotten
to take the boots out of the trucks overnight

Bitterly,

Carl Fogel

"Carl Fogel" wrote in message
om...
"Per Elmsater" wrote in message
...
Carl Fogel wrote:
Dear Mark,

I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
before starting time.


Vision?? You mean you've never seen that

Dear Perre,

The closest I've come is seeing world champion
trials riders using borrowed hair-dryers to warm
up their cold rubber Dunlop boots on an icy morning.

While out loud I agreed that those pampered sissies
from Europe had finally revealed that they weren't
men enough to compete in Colorado, I secretly
thought that:

a) they could ride rings around us backwards
b) my feet were awfully goddamned cold
c) the women loaning the hair-dryers looked like
splendid mechanics, even if they'd forgotten
to take the boots out of the trucks overnight



;-)) You crack me up sometimes
I'm sure you could lube anything just with your imagination.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In article ,
joel roth wrote:

Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice Wax,
or are they basically the same product?

Thanks.

Joel


I've used both these products and they are basically the same, but with
some differences in practical usage. Pedro's is thicker and lasts a
little longer - maybe 70 miles. WL wears off after 30 miles,tops. Both
are *clean* in that relatively little road grit sticks to them, but I
find that WL is a sloopy mess to use, getting all over the chain stay
and rear wheel because you really have to slather it on to get the
necessary chain coverage. Both are very expensive per application.

I way prefer the *dry* or *semi-dry* synthetic, petroleum based lubes
such as Pro Link, Finish Line, Tri-Flow, eg. They're also pricey per
bottle, but much more economical per application.

Cheers,
Bennett Fischer
Brooklyn,NY