Chain Reaction closes Los Altos store.

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 10:54:04 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 4:34:35 PM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:

Not that you have to buy Trek (particularly if you're an anti-American communist),

-- Jay Beattie.

Probably 99.9% of every bike Trek sells is made in China. I think only their Project One OCLV 9000 or so bike is actually made in USA. All the other carbon bikes come from China. I guess Dell Computer is an American company even though 100% of everything they sell is made in China. And Toyota is a foreign company even though their cars are made in USA. Its a wacky world we live in.

You are clearly an anti-American communist. I think the foreign production number is 99.0%. The 99.9% number is clearly liberal bias and fake news.

Trek, however, also owns shops and employs AMERICANS! My Emonda was assembled in the USA -- it's also a great bike.

I only buy products made by American companies, except for my Subaru and most everything else I own. I have a Chris King headset in a box downstairs. Made in Portland, USA! And some old Phil hubs and a BB made in San Jose, California, parts of which are American!

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/4/2017 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 12/4/2017 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 5:41:21 PM UTC-6, sms wrote:

Trek's touring bicycle selection has always been lousy, they have the
Trek 520 which is inferior to other brands' touring bicycles.

Trek has the 520 for loaded touring.Â* Most every other bike company
has exactly ONE loaded touring bike too.Â* The 520 is very similar or
the exact same as every other loaded touring bike sold.Â* There are no
differences in loaded touring bikes.Â* They all have steel frame and
forks made in China.Â* Shimano or maybe SRAM mid/low level components.
Bar end shifters.Â* 9 speed cassette.Â* Triple crank.Â* They are all the
same.Â* None are inferior or superior to the others.Â* They are all the
same.Â* Only difference is price.Â* Nashbar and Bikes Direct are at the
cheaper end and Trek is at the higher end.Â* Same bike.

I assume you have never ever in your life been loaded touring.Â* The
Trek 520 works just fine as a loaded touring bike.Â* I have several
months and thousands of miles to back this up.Â* You just want a bike
that works just fine day after day.Â* Nothing fancy or wild.

You can tell the difference between loaded touring bicycles by looking
at the type of steel, the geometry, the components, and the included, if
any, racks.

As Russell said, the components are fine. 2018 Trek 520 has a Deore rear
derailleur, Alivio front derailleur and Dura Ace shifters. Most other
components are decent Shimano stuff. The steel is butted chrome-moly. It
comes with a decent rack and fittings for front low riders. I don't know
what more you want. The bike has a very good reputation and it's well
deserved.

A big advantage in newer models, is disc brakes, i.e. the Surly Long
Haul Trucker Disc model. These would have been very nice to have when
doing loaded touring on steep long downhill runs.

Ah yes, now that disc brakes are on the market, the brakes that served
us well for decades are suddenly inadequate. Fashion is everything!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/4/2017 2:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 14:34, jbeattie wrote:

What is causing this bike market downturn?

It MUST be fake news! You, Joerg, have assured us that by building bike
trails we'd get millions of Americans to give up their cars forever. And
every year, more segregated kiddy paths have been built. Some cities
have doubled their bike mode share, all the way from 0.2% to 0.4%!
That's like a 100% increase!

So I'm not going to believe any biased communist industry data. I _know_
bike sales have skyrocketed! Those bike dealers are not reporting sales
so they can cheat on their taxes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/4/2017 11:26 AM, Joerg wrote:

What is causing this bike market downturn?

a) Helmet promotion

b) Flashing daytime running lights and 1500+ lumen front lights with
wide beams

c) The resurgence of steel frames

Seriously, if you read Bicycle Retailer News, you can see that many
companies are doing very well while others are struggling. But bicycle
imports are down overall even while some categories are up.

Thule is doing great. Shimano is doing great.

Some stores are adding locations. Some stores are closing locations.

Trek has been lowering prices and Specialized has been raising prices.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/studi...ough-september

One thing that is probably really hurting bicycle shops is
direct-to-consumer sales of parts, accessories, and clothing, from
retailers and manufacturers outside the U.S.. These sales are not part
of industry data. I know that personally I've purchased quite a few
items from several retailers Europe and Asia, not because of price, but
because lack of availability in the U.S.. But also I've purchased quite
a few items from an LBS that is not local to me. tinyurl.com/notatlbs

Manufacturer direct to consumer sales also don't show up in BPSA sales
figures to dealers. It seems that a lot of people have some connection
direct to the manufacturer, which bypasses the bicycle store completely,
both for complete bicycles and for parts, clothing, and accessories.

On 2017-12-04 12:39, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 2:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 14:34, jbeattie wrote:

What is causing this bike market downturn?

It MUST be fake news! You, Joerg, have assured us that by building bike
trails we'd get millions of Americans to give up their cars forever. And
every year, more segregated kiddy paths have been built. Some cities
have doubled their bike mode share, all the way from 0.2% to 0.4%!
That's like a 100% increase!


Sure it is, and for America that is quite big. Weren't you the guy
always touting the health benefits? Calculate the health Dollars saved here.


So I'm not going to believe any biased communist industry data. I _know_
bike sales have skyrocketed! Those bike dealers are not reporting sales
so they can cheat on their taxes.


We were talking about the Silicon Valley. I can imagine that cycling
down there isn't exactly fun. Up here in the Sierra foothills bike sales
are brisk. Else successes such as these would not happen:

http://teamcycleandtscafe.com/contact-about-us/1768830

http://www.bisonbikes.com/

Bison is where I bought my MTB and then other stuff. Imagine, two
successful bike shops in a village of less than 20000. And it continues
around us as well. This shop in Placerville opened recently, was in
there yesterday:

http://placerville-downtown.org/busi...gtown-cyclery/

What blew my mind is what some people are spending on bicycles and
parts. Kevin showed us a mod he was working on for a customer. New
12-speed cluster with 50T cog and the cassette alone cost well north of
$300. Twelve! Crazy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:26:51 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 14:34, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
I was just in Los Altos today and noticed that Chain Reaction is
gone. This is the store owned by Steve and Mike Jacubowsky--Mike
used to post in this group. Their Redwood City store is still
open.

I was surprised to see it gone. That store was located in an area
where people have high disposable incomes, and was the only Trek
dealer in the area. They said that parking and rent were issues.
The space is still empty and they closed about 2.5 months ago, so
no one is a rush to rent it. That shopping center can get very
crowded because there is a popular Trader Joe's and a popular
produce store, and an unpopular Rite Aid store. Also there's both a
Starbucks and a Peet's coffee.

I never bought a bicycle from them, my only Trek is a tandem and
when I bought it Chain Reaction didn't have the size I needed in
stock, even though they were cheaper than the place I ended up
buying it from. For all the other bicycles we've bought in the past
25 years or so Trek did not have any models that met our needs, and
Chain Reaction is a Trek-only store. But I know a lot of people who
bought expensive carbon-fiber bicycles from them, one multiple
times after the carbon-fiber frame broke. They were a very well
thought-of shop for Trek buyers.

Trek has a bike for everything. https://www.trekbikes.com/ They even
have bike-packing bikes.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...colorCode=grey


I am quite certain I'd rip out those tiny rack mounts within the year:

https://trek.scene7.com/is/image/Tre...=0&cache=on,on

This is how it's done right, four 1/4" diatemer bolts and so on:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

If the industry only understood that you need a bunch of clamped on arms to hold 20lbs of luggage! What are they thinking! More bolts . . . more arms!

BTW, the idea of bikepacking is not to put 100lbs on a rear rack. The idea is to divide the load between front and back. http://www.bikepacking.com/news/2018...acking-stache/

Bikepacking is an actual thing. It is not "Joerg-ing" or Superbad-Cameron-Park- Gnar riding with CPUs. It involves packing a relatively modest load of camping gear and food, typically in soft packs. People who haul cargo typically ride cargo bikes. If I were in your shoes, I'd skip the rear suspension and go with a rigid fat bike, being that you're probably bottoming-out your rear shock with your massive, incredible, impossibly heavy loads.


-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 12:54:42 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/4/2017 11:26 AM, Joerg wrote:

What is causing this bike market downturn?

a) Helmet promotion

b) Flashing daytime running lights and 1500+ lumen front lights with
wide beams

c) The resurgence of steel frames

Seriously, if you read Bicycle Retailer News, you can see that many
companies are doing very well while others are struggling. But bicycle
imports are down overall even while some categories are up.

Thule is doing great. Shimano is doing great.

Some stores are adding locations. Some stores are closing locations.

Trek has been lowering prices and Specialized has been raising prices.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/studi...ough-september

One thing that is probably really hurting bicycle shops is
direct-to-consumer sales of parts, accessories, and clothing, from
retailers and manufacturers outside the U.S.. These sales are not part
of industry data. I know that personally I've purchased quite a few
items from several retailers Europe and Asia . . .


That is because you are an anti-American communist. Once we pass the Trump tax plan and lower the corporate tax rate, all the corporations will return to the USA -- Shimano, Campagnolo, Mavic, Michelin, etc., etc. All the parts we used buy from other countries will be made in the USA again!

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2017-12-04 12:54, sms wrote:
On 12/4/2017 11:26 AM, Joerg wrote:

What is causing this bike market downturn?

a) Helmet promotion


Huh? If someone promotes soap operas and I don't like soap operas, how
is that making me not buying a TV set to watch Westerns?


b) Flashing daytime running lights and 1500+ lumen front lights with
wide beams


I see that rarely. Most people have those puny flashlight on a plastic
clamp. Or worse, nothing at all and at the most a wimpy tail light with
an already leaking depleted battery. A blinding 1500 lumen light is like
a car high-beam and would be flagged by police soon.


c) The resurgence of steel frames


That is a good thing IMHO. Still riding my steel road bike.


Seriously, if you read Bicycle Retailer News, you can see that many
companies are doing very well while others are struggling. But bicycle
imports are down overall even while some categories are up.

Thule is doing great. Shimano is doing great.

Some stores are adding locations. Some stores are closing locations.

Trek has been lowering prices and Specialized has been raising prices.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/studi...ough-september



Quote "... front-suspension 29ers posted 11 percent growth, and 27.5
full-suspension bike shipments rose 4 percent ..."

Got to know where the market is. Just like the car guys have to.
Sometimes sedans are en vogue, sometimes SUVs.


One thing that is probably really hurting bicycle shops is
direct-to-consumer sales of parts, accessories, and clothing, from
retailers and manufacturers outside the U.S..


No wonder. Dealers and middlemen have to be less greedy. When they want
$17 for a pair of sub-par resin brake pads that last 500mi while I can
buy a pair in almost motorcycle grade for $2 from Hangzhou that lasts
1000mi and more, why are they surprised?


... These sales are not part
of industry data. I know that personally I've purchased quite a few
items from several retailers Europe and Asia, not because of price, but
because lack of availability in the U.S.. But also I've purchased quite
a few items from an LBS that is not local to me. tinyurl.com/notatlbs

Manufacturer direct to consumer sales also don't show up in BPSA sales
figures to dealers. It seems that a lot of people have some connection
direct to the manufacturer, which bypasses the bicycle store completely,
both for complete bicycles and for parts, clothing, and accessories.


I think it can be summed up in very few words: Amazon, EBay, and similar.

If they don't track that the data is fairly useless. They've got to
track it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/4/2017 2:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 12/4/2017 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 5:41:21 PM UTC-6, sms wrote:

Trek's touring bicycle selection has always been lousy,
they have the
Trek 520 which is inferior to other brands' touring
bicycles.

Trek has the 520 for loaded touring. Most every other
bike company has exactly ONE loaded touring bike too.Â
The 520 is very similar or the exact same as every other
loaded touring bike sold. There are no differences in
loaded touring bikes. They all have steel frame and
forks made in China. Shimano or maybe SRAM mid/low
level components. Bar end shifters. 9 speed cassette.Â
Triple crank. They are all the same. None are
inferior or superior to the others. They are all the
same. Only difference is price. Nashbar and Bikes
Direct are at the cheaper end and Trek is at the higher
end. Same bike.

I assume you have never ever in your life been loaded
touring. The Trek 520 works just fine as a loaded
touring bike. I have several months and thousands of
miles to back this up. You just want a bike that works
just fine day after day. Nothing fancy or wild.

You can tell the difference between loaded touring
bicycles by looking at the type of steel, the geometry,
the components, and the included, if any, racks.

As Russell said, the components are fine. 2018 Trek 520 has
a Deore rear derailleur, Alivio front derailleur and Dura
Ace shifters. Most other components are decent Shimano
stuff. The steel is butted chrome-moly. It comes with a
decent rack and fittings for front low riders. I don't know
what more you want. The bike has a very good reputation and
it's well deserved.

A big advantage in newer models, is disc brakes, i.e. the
Surly Long Haul Trucker Disc model. These would have been
very nice to have when doing loaded touring on steep long
downhill runs.

Ah yes, now that disc brakes are on the market, the brakes
that served us well for decades are suddenly inadequate.
Fashion is everything!


And you have the wrong rim size.
Probably an out-of-date BB format as well.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2017-12-04 13:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:26:51 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 14:34, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
I was just in Los Altos today and noticed that Chain Reaction
is gone. This is the store owned by Steve and Mike
Jacubowsky--Mike used to post in this group. Their Redwood City
store is still open.

I was surprised to see it gone. That store was located in an
area where people have high disposable incomes, and was the
only Trek dealer in the area. They said that parking and rent
were issues. The space is still empty and they closed about 2.5
months ago, so no one is a rush to rent it. That shopping
center can get very crowded because there is a popular Trader
Joe's and a popular produce store, and an unpopular Rite Aid
store. Also there's both a Starbucks and a Peet's coffee.

I never bought a bicycle from them, my only Trek is a tandem
and when I bought it Chain Reaction didn't have the size I
needed in stock, even though they were cheaper than the place I
ended up buying it from. For all the other bicycles we've
bought in the past 25 years or so Trek did not have any models
that met our needs, and Chain Reaction is a Trek-only store.
But I know a lot of people who bought expensive carbon-fiber
bicycles from them, one multiple times after the carbon-fiber
frame broke. They were a very well thought-of shop for Trek
buyers.

Trek has a bike for everything. https://www.trekbikes.com/ They
even have bike-packing bikes.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...colorCode=grey




I am quite certain I'd rip out those tiny rack mounts within the year:

https://trek.scene7.com/is/image/Tre...=0&cache=on,on



This is how it's done right, four 1/4" diatemer bolts and so on:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy4.JPG

If the industry only understood that you need a bunch of clamped on
arms to hold 20lbs of luggage! What are they thinking! More bolts .
. . more arms!


There is a whole lot that the bike industry doesn't understand. Since
decades.


BTW, the idea of bikepacking is not to put 100lbs on a rear rack.


Not 100lbs but sometimes 50lbs or a bit more. When a machine part weighs
60lbs it weighs 60lbs and you have to put it somewhere. Or use the car.


The idea is to divide the load between front and back.
http://www.bikepacking.com/news/2018...acking-stache/


Now explain how to do that with a front suspension fork. Aside from the
fact that the last thing you want to do on an MTB is increase the
steered mass. It'll also dig into mud too easily.


Bikepacking is an actual thing. It is not "Joerg-ing" or
Superbad-Cameron-Park- Gnar riding with CPUs. It involves packing a
relatively modest load of camping gear and food, typically in soft
packs. People who haul cargo typically ride cargo bikes. If I were
in your shoes, I'd skip the rear suspension and go with a rigid fat
bike, being that you're probably bottoming-out your rear shock with
your massive, incredible, impossibly heavy loads.


I'd be in major pain very soon. Once I forgot to unlock the rear
suspension for the first mile on a rocky trail. I was promtly reminded
by sharp pain from the L4-5-6 region of my back.

Also, I made sure my MTB is well equipped for such work. The rear shock
can be pumped up to 300psi. Even with the heaviest of loads I never
needed more than 230psi and I am not a lightweight myself.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/