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Making America into Amsterdam
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride
their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#2
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. -- Jay Beattie. |
#3
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Making America into Amsterdam
jbeattie wrote:
Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. Are there stats, like a list, so one can compare countries and cities? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#4
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 2018-06-26 08:57, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That was quite different when I lived in the Netherlands in the 80's. Whenever I asked friends "Hey, want to have a few beers and a cheese platter in the Kaaskelder?" the answer was usually "YES!". That meant 40mi round trip with the return part in the night yet everyone naturally assumed we'd bike there. The decision was greatly helped by an almost seemless bike path from A to Z. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was. The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away. And so on. ... When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. Last time I was there I had the impression cycling wasn't quite as popular as in the 80's. New generations? Who knows. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 6/26/2018 11:04 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. Of course the statistic that was quoted is not true, but no surprise there! https://www.statista.com/statistics/620201/average-biking-distance-per-person-per-day-netherlands-by-age/ There are four things that need to be necessary to increase bike share in the U.S., and they all need to be present at the same time. You can't do one and proclaim that it's hopeless. 1. Separated bicycle infrastructure that goes between housing centers and job centers. 2. Security so there is no danger of theft or vandalism. 3. Financial or other encouragement 4. Shower facilities. I recently did a bicycle/train combination trip to San Francisco for a meeting. The meeting was at the Metropolitan Transportation Commission, which you would think would be very pro-bicycle. In fact they just talk the talk. Two of us were ready to leave and not attend the meeting because of a lack of secure parking, which is vitally important in San Francisco. When I told one of the check-in people that I was turning in my badge and leaving she suddenly decided that we were worthy of the lovely, two-level, indoor bicycle parking room. |
#6
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 6/26/2018 11:25 AM, Joerg wrote:
No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was. The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away. And so on. This feeds on itself. We have approved numerous "Mixed-Use" developments. The businesses struggle and don't last long. The amount of housing isn't enough to support the businesses and the people that don't live there expect plentiful parking to be easily available, and close, which it isn't. I talked to a commercial real estate broker about this. See http://cumbelich.com/blog/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mixed-use. "As far as trends in retail real estate development go, none during my 30-years in the industry has been more counter-productive or government-driven than residential over retail mixed-use development (RRMU). Pick just about any Bay Area city and you will easily identify any number of RRMU projects that have been proposed, entitled and/or developed over the past ten years. And with rare exception, these projects suffer the same ills…relatively high vacancy rates, substantially below market rents, poor credit tenancies and a high turnover rate of the brokerage firms that try, with little success, to lease what is un-leasable. Don’t get me wrong – as a design concept RRMU works beautifully…in Paris. And in Manhattan. And therein lies a big part of the problem. City planners and city councils across Northern California have revealed an inferiority complex to major urban markets around the world and tried to force feed this utterly urban product type into sprawling suburbs from Concord to Novato to San Jose. Only guess what, the most important ingredient is missing – concentrated, massive, pedestrian populations." One new development decided not to leave space for parking along the road, building all the way out to the street, then asked the city to put in limited time street parking. We declined because of the cost of enforcement. You chose to live in an area where it's far to everything. From my house, in 15 minutes I can walk to three grocery stores, two drug stores, and about 30 restaurants. By bicycle it's less than five minutes. A house close-in was much more expensive per square foot than a house in the distant suburbs of San Jose. We could have had a larger, newer house for the same money. But it sure is nice to not have to drive everywhere. You also have the issue that, despite the astr-turf YIMBY groups, that families with children generally want to live in single family homes. |
#7
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 6/26/2018 2:14 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
jbeattie wrote: Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. Are there stats, like a list, so one can compare countries and cities? I generally start with a search at google.com Or perhaps www.duckduckgo.com if you value your privacy. You can try typing "bicycle mode share" in the search box. Or type some other phrase is it sounds interesting to you. Here's one result: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share -- - Frank Krygowski |
#8
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 6/26/2018 2:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. Indeed, there are many other differences. And a look at the cities listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share shows that any city over 7% is an extreme outlier. I notice, though, that it lists Portland as just 3%. I don't know the details on that survey, but IIRC the one that claimed 7% for Portland really meant 7% of the city's legal residents said they traveled by bike. That does not mean that 7% of the travel within city limits was by bike. The hoards entering from the suburbs are almost all in cars. Differences? We've been through this before, but I do think average trip length must be important, along with terrain, weather, history, culture and perhaps most important, local fashion. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#9
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 6/26/2018 3:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2018 2:04 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips. City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences. Indeed, there are many other differences. And a look at the cities listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share shows that any city over 7% is an extreme outlier. I notice, though, that it lists Portland as just 3%. I don't know the details on that survey, but IIRC the one that claimed 7% for Portland really meant 7% of the city's legal residents said they traveled by bike. That does not mean that 7% of the travel within city limits was by bike. The hoards entering from the suburbs are almost all in cars. Differences? We've been through this before, but I do think average trip length must be important, along with terrain, weather, history, culture and perhaps most important, local fashion. Probably just needs more friendly kiddie paths: https://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...7b5df427c.html -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#10
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Making America into Amsterdam
sms wrote:
:On 6/26/2018 11:25 AM, Joerg wrote: : No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I : needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just : across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was. : The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was : diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away. : And so on. :This feeds on itself. :We have approved numerous "Mixed-Use" developments. The businesses :struggle and don't last long. The amount of housing isn't enough to Every one I've every seen has been done wrong. Not enough density. Stupid zoning that reduces density, like requiring setbacks and clearances, and parking. Do that, and get back to us. -- sig 123 |
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