randonneur

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 6:25:09 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 5/30/2018 11:02 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:06:49 -0700, Mark J.
wrote:

* Notes: I use "touring bike" to mean a bike intended for multi-day
trips carrying camping gear. I use "randonneur" or "rando bike" to
mean a bike intended for brevets - 200 to 1200 km mostly
self-supported rides carrying the bare minimum for survival and ride
completion.

Even there the standards are widely variable. My buddy Doug did a 600
km brevet on a racing bike with 23 mm tires, a patch kit and tire lever
and about $20 in cash. He was perfectly happy with that. I am not such
a minimalist. I'd have had a handlebar bag with two spare tubes, patch
kit, a compact tool kit (fits in an Altoids can but is surprisingly
complete), maybe a rain jacket, some food, money and ID, cell phone...
and my bike has fenders, generator lighting, wideish tires, etc.

Yup. We see both types on Oregon brevets. I'm closer to you than I am
to your buddy. "Minimum for survival and ride completion" is
interpreted in a highly variable way.

Mark J.

A 600 kilometer brevet requires riding through the night if done straight through. So lights. I think 40 hours is the time limit for a 600k. So if you only rode daylight, you'd get 16 hours daylight riding the first day. 8 hours night. Then 16 hours riding the next day, in daylight. Easy to do 600k in 32 hours riding time. No lights needed. And no need for all the extra stuff. Its pretty easy for weather to be pleasant for two consecutive days. Just pick a 600k where the weather is forecast to be good for two days. Not hard. And having a bike not break down for two consecutive days of riding is pretty common. So lots of tools and repair gear is not needed.

AMuzi wrote:

Color's the easiest part of custom.
Deutsch flag motif

OK, then the most difficult part is money.
I know you can pile down a list of
impressive-looking tech specs and have
a Chinese factory mould it exactly to your
liking, or an Italian master welder for that
matter...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

AMuzi wrote:

Color's the easiest part of custom.
Deutsch flag motif:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WFDLAUE3.JPG

Grateful Dead:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdsam7.jpg

Bovine:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdsam8.jpg

BMW Atlantic Blue to match your convertible:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WFD08DC1.JPG

The Atlantic looks great, the others no
so much.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Color's the easiest part of custom.
Deutsch flag motif

One does not want to offend either Spain or Cataloonya, so I'd say, (and try
to keep an innocent face) it most resembles IndyCar's slippery racetrack
"surface" flag.

OK, then the most difficult part is money.
I know you can pile down a list of
impressive-looking tech specs and have
a Chinese factory mould it exactly to your
liking, or an Italian master welder for that
matter...

If funds are the limit, do not buy a new bike from a dealer.

Not even a discounted beauty from a scandophile master welder...
http://www.norwid.de/viewoffer.php?id=71

On Wed, 30 May 2018 13:33:07 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/30/2018 1:02 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:06:49 -0700, Mark J.
wrote:

* Notes: I use "touring bike" to mean a bike intended for multi-day
trips carrying camping gear. I use "randonneur" or "rando bike" to
mean a bike intended for brevets - 200 to 1200 km mostly
self-supported rides carrying the bare minimum for survival and ride
completion.

Even there the standards are widely variable. My buddy Doug did a
600 km brevet on a racing bike with 23 mm tires, a patch kit and tire
lever and about $20 in cash. He was perfectly happy with that. I am
not such a minimalist. I'd have had a handlebar bag with two spare
tubes, patch kit, a compact tool kit (fits in an Altoids can but is
surprisingly complete), maybe a rain jacket, some food, money and ID,
cell phone... and my bike has fenders, generator lighting, wideish
tires, etc.


No provision for mountain lions? A rusty nail with matching rock for
chain repairs? Gallon of fresh brewed beer? You're quite Spartan!

LOL! The Spartans would consider me a fat, wimpy snowflake. They might
have a point...

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:16:48 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

Very interesting post!

Tire width is a center of discussion in the randonneuring world. 700
x ~30 versus 650B x ~40-45 versus 559 x 50+.

Let's see, 700 (here) is 700C or 622; 650B is 584; and, 559 is 559,
right?

Ayup.

If so, I think I'm in the 650Bx40 camp tho I don't mind 28" wheels (if
650B is 27.5").

Why not 622-40?

Dunno.

650B x 40+ was the standard for brevet riders until the early to mid
50s when the fastest riders were riding PBP on what were basically
racing wheels.

OK, so PBP is Paris-Brest-Paris but what is a "brevet rider"?

A randonneur/randonneur rider?

"Brevet rider" = "person participating in a brevet." Using French words
in an English language discussion rapidly runs into problems.

"Brevet," while used to describe standardized bicycling events, also has
many other meanings. For example a brevet is a patent (e.g., "Brev.
Campagnolo"). It is also a type of militry rank promotion; also a
certificate, license, warrant or ticket. In terms of bicycle events,
the parent sanctioning body for PBP is Audax Club Parisien and brevets
(in the sense of certificates) are issued for completing the various
standard events; hence those events are often called "brevets" at least
by English speaking riders.

Randonée is perhaps a more accurate term to describe such events, but
even there confusion reigns. "Randonée" means "hike" or "hiking." It
also means ramble, walk, trek, promenade or tramp. A randonneur is a
male engaged in hiking, rambing, walking, trekking, promenading or
tramping. A randonneuse is a female engaged in the same.

But cyclists have borrowed those words for cycling within the French
language and then have imported those words into English without an
understanding of the nuances and multiple meanings. So a randonneur
rides a brevet on his or her randonneuse, aiming to complete the
randonée in the allotted time to receive his or her brevet certificate.
Nous anglophones, nous sommes des idiots quand il s'agit de parler
français.

Or, in my case, I just go out and ride my bike and call it a bike
ride... ;-)

On Thu, 31 May 2018 21:57:40 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
Duane wrote:

So you should be asking about touring bikes, not randonneuses. And
you shouldn't be complaining that bikes meant for brevets aren't
equipped the way you want them to be in order to do loaded touring.

The best bike I have seen to this date for my projected purposes has
been the "VSF Fahrradmanufaktur TX-Randonneur Shimano 105 30-speed",
only it is too expensive (but I can put away for a couple of months,
for sure).

The second best bike is the "Fuji Touring Road Bike 2018", only that
by default doesn't have lights, fenders or front racks, and the 32
tires is a question mark. Heck, I don't know if it even has a
kickstand! Doesn't seem like my kind'a stuff at all...

How about the Surly Long Haul Trucker? Probably the most popular loaded
touring bike in the and often used in other parts of the world.

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

It is what the French would have called a "Campeur."

On Thu, 31 May 2018 15:13:51 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

As a tall, heavy guy I thnk that'd be about right. I have problems
with any rear wheel with less than 36 spokes if it has 7 or more cogs
(7 x 135 mm wide is not a problem, very low dish wheel, but 7 or more
with a 130 mm OLN is just bad design IMHO even though it is the
standard. With 11 speeds, the OLN should be 140 or 145 mm unless the
rider is under 120 lbs).

What is OLN? "Over lock nut"?

Yes- the distance between the inner faces of the rear dropouts. 110 mm
is or was standard for track bikes, 120 for 5 speed and some 6 speed,
etc. up to 130 mm for 8/9/10/11 speed (road standards, 135 mm MTB
standards). As the cassette gets wider, the wheel dish becomes more
severe and the rear wheel gets weaker.

At 6'3" and currently an embarrassing 230 lbs after several years of
health problems, I put probably 120 lbs on the rear wheel wthout any
extra loads on the bike. I find that 130 mm wheels with 8+ speeds are
unstable over time- the non-drive side spokes lose tension, the wheel
goes out of true and requires correction regularly. I have a 7 speed
26" wheel on one bike that is mow 22 years old and has never had to be
retrued. With a 7 speed freewheel and the larger OLN, the wheel has
very little dish and is very strong and stable. I should probably go to
a MTB or tandem rear hub (135 mm to 145 mm, respectively) on my road
bikes and reduce my wheel problems considerably.

Certainly on a touring bike I would go with the wider spacing for the
rear wheel.

On 01/06/2018 2:32 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 21:57:40 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
Duane wrote:

So you should be asking about touring bikes, not randonneuses. And
you shouldn't be complaining that bikes meant for brevets aren't
equipped the way you want them to be in order to do loaded touring.

The best bike I have seen to this date for my projected purposes has
been the "VSF Fahrradmanufaktur TX-Randonneur Shimano 105 30-speed",
only it is too expensive (but I can put away for a couple of months,
for sure).

The second best bike is the "Fuji Touring Road Bike 2018", only that
by default doesn't have lights, fenders or front racks, and the 32
tires is a question mark. Heck, I don't know if it even has a
kickstand! Doesn't seem like my kind'a stuff at all...

How about the Surly Long Haul Trucker? Probably the most popular loaded
touring bike in the and often used in other parts of the world.

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

It is what the French would have called a "Campeur."


La plupart des quebecois dirait "velo de randonée." This is maybe where
his problem comes from. g Si on traduire "velo" faut traduire
"randonée" aussi. Touring bike.

And yeah, there are a lot of Surly long haul truckers on the road around
here. Sounds like what the OP is looking for.

On 6/1/2018 1:41 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 15:13:51 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

As a tall, heavy guy I thnk that'd be about right. I have problems
with any rear wheel with less than 36 spokes if it has 7 or more cogs
(7 x 135 mm wide is not a problem, very low dish wheel, but 7 or more
with a 130 mm OLN is just bad design IMHO even though it is the
standard. With 11 speeds, the OLN should be 140 or 145 mm unless the
rider is under 120 lbs).

What is OLN? "Over lock nut"?

Yes- the distance between the inner faces of the rear dropouts. 110 mm
is or was standard for track bikes, 120 for 5 speed and some 6 speed,
etc. up to 130 mm for 8/9/10/11 speed (road standards, 135 mm MTB
standards). As the cassette gets wider, the wheel dish becomes more
severe and the rear wheel gets weaker.

At 6'3" and currently an embarrassing 230 lbs after several years of
health problems, I put probably 120 lbs on the rear wheel wthout any
extra loads on the bike. I find that 130 mm wheels with 8+ speeds are
unstable over time- the non-drive side spokes lose tension, the wheel
goes out of true and requires correction regularly. I have a 7 speed
26" wheel on one bike that is mow 22 years old and has never had to be
retrued. With a 7 speed freewheel and the larger OLN, the wheel has
very little dish and is very strong and stable. I should probably go to
a MTB or tandem rear hub (135 mm to 145 mm, respectively) on my road
bikes and reduce my wheel problems considerably.

Certainly on a touring bike I would go with the wider spacing for the
rear wheel.


Touring bikes are mostly 135mm and have been for 10~15
years. With the advent of through axles there myriad
'standards' now.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971