Cable inTop Tube

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 8:19:44 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/6/2016 9:41 PM, John B. wrote:


The only French made device I ever owned was Renault Dauphine that I
bought when I came back from 10 years in Japan. Without doubt the
absolute worst automobile I have ever owned.

With that experience in mind I have never, knowingly, owned anything
built in France :-)

Well, I'm still very fond of Zephal pumps! I kinda like Michelin tires,
too.

Simplex derailleurs changed the TdF -- the first widely used cable actuated derailleurs. I remember reading a book about Coppi that had some interviews of even older Italian riders who complained about getting crushed by the guys with Simplex derailleurs. There were a lot of solid French products -- some too solid. I could have used my old Simplex seat post for clubbing seals or home defense. The Michelin Elan changed the market -- and was promptly appropriated by Mike Sinyard and Specialized. Such is competition. I still preferred the SuperCompHD to Turbos.

Speaking of French derailleurs, I was so bent on having a Campagnolo NR rear derailleur on my PX-10 that I hacked off the Simplex hanger. At age 16 or 17, it never occurred to me that I could have tapped it. Anyway, a frame builder later brazed on a Campy tab.

And for equal opportunity ragging, I'm not clear why we still have Italian-standard BBs. Why would you want a threaded cup that wants to unscrew itself? I have friends with Pinarellos who complain about the lack of availability of threaded BBs for some crank brands -- but I guess with the various press-in standards, most of those complaints will go away, although i still think a good, threaded BB is the way to go.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 10:16:10 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/7/2016 8:39 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 01:36:25 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 4:37:35 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?
--

Cheers,

John B.

I was in the market for an "adventure bike" so had a frame-maker I know build me one to spec. I was disappointed that many of the commercial offerings had either CX-style cable along the top tube (gets in the way of gear bags) or road-style under the down tube, where they get bashed and mucked up.

So I got him to put three stainless steel tubes in the OS down tube for FD, RD and rear brake (hydraulic disc, inside the seatstay/chainstay triangle). The FD cable routing was the only iffy part, but by having that tube exit on top and further up the down tube, it provides a smooth loop to the FD. Hopefully stainless tubes will prevent any rust issues - time will tell.

And a tip for routing bare cable through frames - solder the cable end first.

I would think that if he used a continuous run of stainless brazed at
both ends it should be waterproof.

In rebuilding one of my frames a while back I gave thought to doing
the same thing. I didn't because it is a sort of fiddly project
getting everything in the right place and the right angle and making
sure that nothing interferes with anything else :-)

ISTM that if you want it for essentially mechanical reasons (getting in
the way of bags, getting mucked up) it would be a lot simpler to braze
or weld the protective steel tubes to the outside of the bike's frame
tubes. Running them inside frame tubes seems like a finicky and
problematic aesthetic choice.

But personally, I can't see any benefit either way.

As I said, I rationalized my way out of that scheme :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 8:19:44 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/6/2016 9:41 PM, John B. wrote:


The only French made device I ever owned was Renault Dauphine that I
bought when I came back from 10 years in Japan. Without doubt the
absolute worst automobile I have ever owned.

With that experience in mind I have never, knowingly, owned anything
built in France :-)

Well, I'm still very fond of Zephal pumps! I kinda like Michelin tires,
too.

Simplex derailleurs changed the TdF -- the first widely used cable actuated derailleurs. I remember reading a book about Coppi that had some interviews of even older Italian riders who complained about getting crushed by the guys with Simplex derailleurs. There were a lot of solid French products -- some too solid. I could have used my old Simplex seat post for clubbing seals or home defense. The Michelin Elan changed the market -- and was promptly appropriated by Mike Sinyard and Specialized. Such is competition. I still preferred the SuperCompHD to Turbos.

Speaking of French derailleurs, I was so bent on having a Campagnolo NR rear derailleur on my PX-10 that I hacked off the Simplex hanger. At age 16 or 17, it never occurred to me that I could have tapped it. Anyway, a frame builder later brazed on a Campy tab.

And for equal opportunity ragging, I'm not clear why we still have Italian-standard BBs. Why would you want a threaded cup that wants to unscrew itself? I have friends with Pinarellos who complain about the lack of availability of threaded BBs for some crank brands -- but I guess with the various press-in standards, most of those complaints will go away, although i still think a good, threaded BB is the way to go.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suspect that as a bottom bracket is essentially a bunch of balls
rolling around in a circle that the old fashioned threaded versions
are mechanically as good as anything else.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On 5/7/2016 7:29 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 8:19:44 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/6/2016 9:41 PM, John B. wrote:


The only French made device I ever owned was Renault Dauphine that I
bought when I came back from 10 years in Japan. Without doubt the
absolute worst automobile I have ever owned.

With that experience in mind I have never, knowingly, owned anything
built in France :-)

Well, I'm still very fond of Zephal pumps! I kinda like Michelin tires,
too.

Simplex derailleurs changed the TdF -- the first widely used cable actuated derailleurs. I remember reading a book about Coppi that had some interviews of even older Italian riders who complained about getting crushed by the guys with Simplex derailleurs. There were a lot of solid French products -- some too solid. I could have used my old Simplex seat post for clubbing seals or home defense. The Michelin Elan changed the market -- and was promptly appropriated by Mike Sinyard and Specialized. Such is competition. I still preferred the SuperCompHD to Turbos.

Speaking of French derailleurs, I was so bent on having a Campagnolo NR rear derailleur on my PX-10 that I hacked off the Simplex hanger. At age 16 or 17, it never occurred to me that I could have tapped it. Anyway, a frame builder later brazed on a Campy tab.

And for equal opportunity ragging, I'm not clear why we still have Italian-standard BBs. Why would you want a threaded cup that wants to unscrew itself? I have friends with Pinarellos who complain about the lack of availability of threaded BBs for some crank brands -- but I guess with the various press-in standards, most of those complaints will go away, although i still think a good, threaded BB is the way to go.

-- Jay Beattie.

Memorable French bike parts...

I had a Huret Duo-Par derailleur on my tandem in the 80s. It had some
grave faults, but it shifted better than many other options then
available, Rube Goldberg device though it was.

Who else remembers the Huret Multito cyclometer? Ahh, the
pre-electronic days!

Zefal pumps are still da bomb - or is that da bomba? And why did those
guys write a song about it?

And yes, Michelin folding clinchers (at least /after/ the Elan, IMHO).
And the VAR tire "jack" to install them. I bought several before they
seemed to go out of production.

In the mid 70's I did some temp work assembling low-end Raleighs at a
local shop. All sorts of French parts - Nervar, Simplex (low end of
their lines) etc. The fit and finish were pretty crude, sadly, though I
did lust after the Huret Jubilee derailleur on the Raleigh Competition
hanging in the window.

Then in the 80's when we went to Paris-Brest-Paris, I marveled at all
the old guys - on PBP - riding old ALL-steel French bikes (cottered
cranks) and decided if they could be that tough, there would always be a
France.

Mark J.

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed into an oval cutout
at both ends. Some have casing stops at the ends, bare wire only passes
the inside section. Others take a full outer casing through their
length. (I use auto brake line to repair/replace those) Corrosion is a
real issue with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html
easy to service but the casing rattles inside the tube and riders
complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of my Gazelle Trim
Trophy frame that I still ride. All the way down to the paint color, I
have the same blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can happen out of the
blue on these old frames an maybe cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour so much money into
old road bikes. Many out here do that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I
met at a pub had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he has a
Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a new bike of the
same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very different
level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm


According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come - contest
the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on the hook. Provided
your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

A friend bought three bikes there and delivery was fast. They state
what's in stock. One is a titanium MTB that seems almost indestructible.
The other two are fat bikes which ride great.


At the $1k level I expect amenities such as disc brakes and brifters.


My LBS has a black plastic bicycle in the front window with a price
tag of about US$ 9,000 and the darned thing doesn't even have pedals.
You have to pay extra to get the pedals.

Think of that. Nearly ten thousand dollars out of pocket and you can't
even push it out of the shop door and get on and ride the thing.


Well, some people "need" a $3k Rolex to know that it's 10:05am right
now. Others like me make do with a $40 watch that is sturdy and
seemingly lasts forever.

Unfortunately many, perhaps most, people attach a label to individuals
at first sight. A bloke with a Timex watch, dirty tee shirt and rubber
flip-flop sandals is usually considered a "no good down, down and
outer" while the bloke in the three piece Brooks Brothers suit and the
Rolex watch is a "Somebody".

Unfortunate but true.


You just described me :-)

Except my flip-flops are leather and I don't wear a watch because the
bikes have clocks "built in". My T-shirts are in three stacks. The good
ones are for every day. When too scuffed or faded they migrate to the
middle stack which is for cycling. When almost totally in tatters they
move to stack #3 which is for when I split firewood, fix bikes and such.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed into an oval cutout
at both ends. Some have casing stops at the ends, bare wire only passes
the inside section. Others take a full outer casing through their
length. (I use auto brake line to repair/replace those) Corrosion is a
real issue with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html
easy to service but the casing rattles inside the tube and riders
complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of my Gazelle Trim
Trophy frame that I still ride. All the way down to the paint color, I
have the same blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can happen out of the
blue on these old frames an maybe cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour so much money into
old road bikes. Many out here do that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I
met at a pub had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he has a
Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a new bike of the
same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very different
level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm


According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come - contest
the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on the hook. Provided
your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

Actually not. If he has actually got your money then it is gone. the
only question is whether you get it back or not from the credit card
company..

Years ago one of the computer magazines got ripped off for thousands
the same way. When they complained to the police, sheriff's
department, state police and FBI, none of which would help, they
investigated themselves and found that three individuals had open
three companies and were selling fictitious hard drives.

Advert in the magazine "Cheap hard drives - credit card accepted" and
as soon as they had cashed enough credit card orders they simply
walked away and started a new company.

A friend bought three bikes there and delivery was fast. They state
what's in stock. One is a titanium MTB that seems almost indestructible.
The other two are fat bikes which ride great.




--
cheers,

John B.

On 2016-05-09 18:37, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed into an oval cutout
at both ends. Some have casing stops at the ends, bare wire only passes
the inside section. Others take a full outer casing through their
length. (I use auto brake line to repair/replace those) Corrosion is a
real issue with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html
easy to service but the casing rattles inside the tube and riders
complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of my Gazelle Trim
Trophy frame that I still ride. All the way down to the paint color, I
have the same blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can happen out of the
blue on these old frames an maybe cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour so much money into
old road bikes. Many out here do that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I
met at a pub had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he has a
Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a new bike of the
same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very different
level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm


According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come - contest
the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on the hook. Provided
your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

Actually not. If he has actually got your money then it is gone.


No. At least not in the US. They can (and will) pull it right back out
of their merchant account if fraud is suspected.


... the
only question is whether you get it back or not from the credit card
company..


A good one will stand by you. Else their reputation can tank, word gets
around, client leave.


Years ago one of the computer magazines got ripped off for thousands
the same way. When they complained to the police, sheriff's
department, state police and FBI, none of which would help, they
investigated themselves and found that three individuals had open
three companies and were selling fictitious hard drives.

Advert in the magazine "Cheap hard drives - credit card accepted" and
as soon as they had cashed enough credit card orders they simply
walked away and started a new company.


The bank holding their merchant account will either have to go after
them or swallow the loss. Not the poeple who bought the hard drives.
That's key.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:52:42 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-09 18:37, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed into an oval cutout
at both ends. Some have casing stops at the ends, bare wire only passes
the inside section. Others take a full outer casing through their
length. (I use auto brake line to repair/replace those) Corrosion is a
real issue with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html
easy to service but the casing rattles inside the tube and riders
complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of my Gazelle Trim
Trophy frame that I still ride. All the way down to the paint color, I
have the same blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can happen out of the
blue on these old frames an maybe cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour so much money into
old road bikes. Many out here do that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I
met at a pub had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he has a
Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a new bike of the
same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very different
level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm


According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come - contest
the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on the hook. Provided
your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

Actually not. If he has actually got your money then it is gone.


No. At least not in the US. They can (and will) pull it right back out
of their merchant account if fraud is suspected.

See e.g. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...t-card-charges

Protections are granted by FCBA and the terms of the card, which may have broader warranty-like coverage (many if not most do -- although they exclude certain products, like electronics). Might I also suggest buying products at Costco -- with a liberal return policy and doubling of factory warranties. I got a spanky new TV when the original went belly-up after one year (factory warranty) but less than two years (Costco-doubled warranty). Also consider coupons. I got a coupon for a free water bottle from Western Bikeworks! Woohoo!

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2016-05-10 12:41, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:52:42 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-09 18:37, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top
tube I saw used a metal tube brazed inside the
top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable,
and housing, threaded through some plastic or
rubber fittings so that instead of the old
fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube
it is now simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is
better or worse than the old system. I am
inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or
rubber "patch" to hold the cable may not be as
strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other
hand the "old" system might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully
wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed
into an oval cutout at both ends. Some have casing
stops at the ends, bare wire only passes the inside
section. Others take a full outer casing through
their length. (I use auto brake line to
repair/replace those) Corrosion is a real issue
with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with
rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html easy to
service but the casing rattles inside the tube and
riders complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of
my Gazelle Trim Trophy frame that I still ride. All
the way down to the paint color, I have the same
blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can
happen out of the blue on these old frames an maybe
cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour
so much money into old road bikes. Many out here do
that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I met at a pub
had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he
has a Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so
far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a
new bike of the same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very
different level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm




According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come -
contest the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on
the hook. Provided your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

Actually not. If he has actually got your money then it is gone.


No. At least not in the US. They can (and will) pull it right back
out of their merchant account if fraud is suspected.

See e.g.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...t-card-charges


Yup. I didn't have much in terms of disputes in my lifetime but the few
times where irregularities happened it was always solved in my favor.
Mostly the vendors fixed it because the last thing they want is to have
a grievance at the credit card company on file. Health care providers
OTOH ... don't get me started ...


Protections are granted by FCBA and the terms of the card, which may
have broader warranty-like coverage (many if not most do -- although
they exclude certain products, like electronics). Might I also
suggest buying products at Costco -- with a liberal return policy and
doubling of factory warranties. I got a spanky new TV when the
original went belly-up after one year (factory warranty) but less
than two years (Costco-doubled warranty).


My card contains a warranty-doubler. I've never used it but always
wondered how they do that.


... Also consider coupons. I
got a coupon for a free water bottle from Western Bikeworks!
Woohoo!


My wife has coupons down to a science. Almost to the point where she
gets money back on a purchase.

My one and only bike bottle is 28oz, biggest I could find. Got it via
Amazon for $4 because it was a previous year Tour de France bottle. It
lives on my road bike and MTB. Over two years old, flew into the turf
umpteen times, with gusto, and still is not broken.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tue, 10 May 2016 07:52:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-09 18:37, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-06 18:41, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 10:05:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 19:05, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2016 08:05:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2016 16:28:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-05 05:52, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/4/2016 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:

The first brake cable running through the top tube I saw used a metal
tube brazed inside the top tube but I've recently seen bikes with what
seems to be just a length of regular brake cable, and housing,
threaded through some plastic or rubber fittings so that instead of
the old fashioned long cable clamped under the top tube it is now
simply placed inside the T.T.

Can anyone comment on whether the "new" system is better or worse than
the old system. I am inclined to think that the "new" system with
slots cut in the T.T. and just a plastic or rubber "patch" to hold the
cable may not be as strong as the "old" system where a metal tube is
actually brazed into the T.T. but on the other hand the "old" system
might be over kill.

Comments?


The range of diversity on that is quite colorfully wide.

There are steel frames with small steel tube brazed into an oval cutout
at both ends. Some have casing stops at the ends, bare wire only passes
the inside section. Others take a full outer casing through their
length. (I use auto brake line to repair/replace those) Corrosion is a
real issue with both.

Others leave an opening for a full casing with rubber locators on the ends:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html
easy to service but the casing rattles inside the tube and riders
complain of that.


That GIOS frame looks like an almost verbatim copy of my Gazelle Trim
Trophy frame that I still ride. All the way down to the paint color, I
have the same blue. Except for the transfer labels, of course.

Is that crack in photos 6 and 7 something that can happen out of the
blue on these old frames an maybe cause a nasty crash?

I am always surprised when owners are willing to pour so much money into
old road bikes. Many out here do that with Peugoet frames. One guy who I
met at a pub had a fancy Italian bike parked outside and said he has a
Peugeot in restoration, and that he had (so far) sunk more than $1k into it.


A thousand dollars? But, that is cheaper then buying a new bike of the
same quality.


Not a whole lot and for just a little more you get a very different
level of machine. Like this:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm


According to the advert that is a deal where you send them your money
and they ship sometime in the future.


There should be no risk with credit cards. Bike doesn't come - contest
the charge and demand it back. Then the dealer is on the hook. Provided
your credit card issuer is a reputable one.

Actually not. If he has actually got your money then it is gone.


No. At least not in the US. They can (and will) pull it right back out
of their merchant account if fraud is suspected.

What merchant account? The one that they have withdrawn nearly all the
funds from?


... the
only question is whether you get it back or not from the credit card
company..


A good one will stand by you. Else their reputation can tank, word gets
around, client leave.


Years ago one of the computer magazines got ripped off for thousands
the same way. When they complained to the police, sheriff's
department, state police and FBI, none of which would help, they
investigated themselves and found that three individuals had open
three companies and were selling fictitious hard drives.

Advert in the magazine "Cheap hard drives - credit card accepted" and
as soon as they had cashed enough credit card orders they simply
walked away and started a new company.


The bank holding their merchant account will either have to go after
them or swallow the loss. Not the poeple who bought the hard drives.
That's key.

You don't understand. The fraudulent companies, as soon as they had
made sufficient "sales" closed the accounts, or drew the bulk of the
money out, and walked away.

--
cheers,

John B.