Actual Technical Question: FD Braze-on versus Clamp

Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.

adjustable beats nit adjustable....at least until the adj. destrcuts.

well, nohining bikewise is REALLY STIIF

so our guess is take it to the plumber n ask for a redo.......


https://www.google.com/search?site=i...Nsnj xYElM%3A

On 5/12/2016 10:41 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.


BZ FD on a clamp vs. properly sized clamp FD = no difference
in performance. Aesthetics of a separate clamp bother some
riders, to which I say, 'don't look down'. Braze FD are
commonly sloppy due to tube flex, although again some riders
just think those look nice.

There are indeed compact fronts and also road/compact cage
designs. Sometimes it matters (46 outer), usually it doesn't
(50 outer).

IME stiff shifter feel is more usually related to cable
issues and the BB nylon guide than to the shifter itself.
Then again your ST6700 may just be sticky from warming a
stock room for a while. A prophylactic schpritz with your
favorite cheap spray lube may help and at any rate won't hurt.

One more thought- did you oil the FD pivots? Oil all of them
and move the changer several times. If black crud runs out
of the pivots, it should be smoother and snappier afterwards.

I dated an English professor for a while without noticeable
grammar osmosis. But she was a real piece of work so I ought
to get a grammar grade bonus just for the suffering.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 10:35:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/12/2016 10:41 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.


BZ FD on a clamp vs. properly sized clamp FD = no difference
in performance. Aesthetics of a separate clamp bother some
riders, to which I say, 'don't look down'. Braze FD are
commonly sloppy due to tube flex, although again some riders
just think those look nice.

There are indeed compact fronts and also road/compact cage
designs. Sometimes it matters (46 outer), usually it doesn't
(50 outer).

IME stiff shifter feel is more usually related to cable
issues and the BB nylon guide than to the shifter itself.
Then again your ST6700 may just be sticky from warming a
stock room for a while. A prophylactic schpritz with your
favorite cheap spray lube may help and at any rate won't hurt.

One more thought- did you oil the FD pivots? Oil all of them
and move the changer several times. If black crud runs out
of the pivots, it should be smoother and snappier afterwards.

I dated an English professor for a while without noticeable
grammar osmosis. But she was a real piece of work so I ought
to get a grammar grade bonus just for the suffering.


D-!

What do you know? I mean really, what do you know? I'm outraged by your answer which entirely misses the point that there was a dead field mouse lodged in my shifter which -- quite obviously -- affected its performance. How could you miss that! I don't know why I bother posting to this group. Cancel my subscription! (Head explodes).

Actually, though, I did oil the pivot this morning and grease the cable guide, but I'm going to take another look at the guide. They are a constant issue on my other bikes. I'll also spray the lever, which I haven't done for fear that I would wash out the magic OE grease/oil.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/12/2016 11:41 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Yes. But not by much.

(Note: Grammarians would say that should be one sentence, but I wrote it
for desired timing and impact. Yes, officer, I can show you my creative
license.)

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

After my recent battle with a FD with a super-strong return spring, I
wonder how those spring stiffnesses compare between models. I'll note
that a (say) 10% increase in spring tension will cause a much greater
than 10% increase in lever force, due to the amplifying effects on
friction around each bend in the bottom bracket cable guide, the cable,
etc.

As Andrew says, it's easy to forget the bottom bracket cable guide, and
friction there can be a killer.

Of course, I'm assuming the stiffness you feel occurs when pulling the
cable to shift to a bigger chainring.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

Damn. Forgot to double space.

--
- Frank Krygowski

jbeattie wrote:
here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

-- Jay Beattie.

On my latest bike builds I have gone with the braze-on front derailleur and separate clamp for bikes without built in front derailleur mount. This allows the option to switch the front derailleur between different frames with or without front derailleur mounts. And frames with different diameter seattubes that just require buying a cheap mount. Braze-on front derailleur wins for versatility. Clamp-on front derailleurs can only stay on that bike frame or another that is pretty much identical. Less versatile. Its rare I switch parts between bikes or frames. But a few years ago I bought a new frame and put all the parts from another bike onto it and got ride of the other frame. Braze-on front derailleur was easy to do this. And I have built up a few bikes by grabbing a front derailleur out of the spare parts boxes. Luckily the frames I was building matched the spare front derailleurs I had in the boxes. But braze-on front derailleurs can be made to work on every frame by buying a new cheap mount.

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 3:54:44 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 10:35:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/12/2016 10:41 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.


BZ FD on a clamp vs. properly sized clamp FD = no difference
in performance. Aesthetics of a separate clamp bother some
riders, to which I say, 'don't look down'. Braze FD are
commonly sloppy due to tube flex, although again some riders
just think those look nice.

There are indeed compact fronts and also road/compact cage
designs. Sometimes it matters (46 outer), usually it doesn't
(50 outer).

IME stiff shifter feel is more usually related to cable
issues and the BB nylon guide than to the shifter itself.
Then again your ST6700 may just be sticky from warming a
stock room for a while. A prophylactic schpritz with your
favorite cheap spray lube may help and at any rate won't hurt.

One more thought- did you oil the FD pivots? Oil all of them
and move the changer several times. If black crud runs out
of the pivots, it should be smoother and snappier afterwards.

I dated an English professor for a while without noticeable
grammar osmosis. But she was a real piece of work so I ought
to get a grammar grade bonus just for the suffering.


D-!

What do you know? I mean really, what do you know? I'm outraged by your answer which entirely misses the point that there was a dead field mouse lodged in my shifter which -- quite obviously -- affected its performance. How could you miss that! I don't know why I bother posting to this group. Cancel my subscription! (Head explodes).

Actually, though, I did oil the pivot this morning and grease the cable guide, but I'm going to take another look at the guide. They are a constant issue on my other bikes. I'll also spray the lever, which I haven't done for fear that I would wash out the magic OE grease/oil.

-- Jay Beattie.

MUH MUH FUGRAMMIT MORK ZUGWALLADORK.........

FORM VARIOUS REASONS, none clear enough to reiterate, several times the FD has refused to work with its brother components. Including a drillout of the cage bolt insertion of an adjustable cage bolt.

clearly, a fixed FD would put you in the hole here."Like" what's fixed ? the headset ? I guess but on muh trekker the bar/stem gizmoid is adjustable everywhichway.

The OEM grease is when in sight excellent. When out of sight anything could lurk in there including the dead mouse. Standard practice is, for serious porpoises, disassemble lay out clean inspect lubricate reassemble.

I use the cheapo Wal CRC HD silicone spray after the cheapo Wal CRC electronics cleaner as a blowout stream device. But the grips could be soaked then blown out with air down at the garage.

is this necessary ? I dunno but the grips doahn work so...?

nukwold va gisellemanuolus

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 11:41:51 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.

how does the shifter feel if the cable is NOT attached to the derailler but is still through the cable guides and held in one hand?

Are the housing ends square and the ferrules in good condition with no grooves or bulging in them?

Cheers

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 6:13:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 3:54:44 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 10:35:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/12/2016 10:41 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Dear f***wits, here is my question: you can buy a DT clamp that is a braze-on substitute and install a braze-on FD or you can buy a FD with a clamp built-in. Is one better than the other?

Question No. 2 (for those people who actually know anything), after installing the new 6700 FD (left) Ultegra lever (this is the old 10 speed group), it feels really stiff -- as did the prior lever. I'm wondering if this is because it is paired with an old FD from an earlier group. It also doesn't seem all that happy with a compact, but I don't think there is any such thing as a compact FD. My adjustment is good.

Please submit your papers, double spaced. Grammar will be graded.

-- Jay Beattie.


BZ FD on a clamp vs. properly sized clamp FD = no difference
in performance. Aesthetics of a separate clamp bother some
riders, to which I say, 'don't look down'. Braze FD are
commonly sloppy due to tube flex, although again some riders
just think those look nice.

There are indeed compact fronts and also road/compact cage
designs. Sometimes it matters (46 outer), usually it doesn't
(50 outer).

IME stiff shifter feel is more usually related to cable
issues and the BB nylon guide than to the shifter itself.
Then again your ST6700 may just be sticky from warming a
stock room for a while. A prophylactic schpritz with your
favorite cheap spray lube may help and at any rate won't hurt.

One more thought- did you oil the FD pivots? Oil all of them
and move the changer several times. If black crud runs out
of the pivots, it should be smoother and snappier afterwards.

I dated an English professor for a while without noticeable
grammar osmosis. But she was a real piece of work so I ought
to get a grammar grade bonus just for the suffering.


D-!

What do you know? I mean really, what do you know? I'm outraged by your answer which entirely misses the point that there was a dead field mouse lodged in my shifter which -- quite obviously -- affected its performance. How could you miss that! I don't know why I bother posting to this group. Cancel my subscription! (Head explodes).

Actually, though, I did oil the pivot this morning and grease the cable guide, but I'm going to take another look at the guide. They are a constant issue on my other bikes. I'll also spray the lever, which I haven't done for fear that I would wash out the magic OE grease/oil.

-- Jay Beattie.

MUH MUH FUGRAMMIT MORK ZUGWALLADORK.........

FORM VARIOUS REASONS, none clear enough to reiterate, several times the FD has refused to work with its brother components. Including a drillout of the cage bolt insertion of an adjustable cage bolt.

clearly, a fixed FD would put you in the hole here."Like" what's fixed ? the headset ? I guess but on muh trekker the bar/stem gizmoid is adjustable everywhichway.

The OEM grease is when in sight excellent. When out of sight anything could lurk in there including the dead mouse. Standard practice is, for serious porpoises, disassemble lay out clean inspect lubricate reassemble.

I use the cheapo Wal CRC HD silicone spray after the cheapo Wal CRC electronics cleaner as a blowout stream device. But the grips could be soaked then blown out with air down at the garage.

is this necessary ? I dunno but the grips doahn work so...?

nukwold va gisellemanuolus

"like' if a trip across the USA was planned n the equippe was new....a foolish approach but for example.....and the new junk worked gud then why not proceed.

here we have 20 interviews with riders going that route only to find a rubbing area, a piece overstressed caws on disass it was found in backwards or untroqued or loose or.....

but with stuff that doesn't feel right.....

On 5/12/2016 6:19 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


how does the shifter feel if the cable is NOT attached to the derailler but is still through the cable guides and held in one hand?

A good question. Jay?


--
- Frank Krygowski