new gear system

On 5/18/2016 11:15 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

I suggest that you reserve judgment until you've seen their ideas. If
you look at the history of bicycle design, you'll probably seen many
aberrations and abominations. As a whole, they're probably
impractical and unsellable. However, there are some genuinely good
ideas among the lot worth emulating, building, and selling:
https://www.google.com/search?q=strange+bicycles&tbm=isch
Well, maybe just a few...


You forgot:

http://img.gizmag.com/tretta.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&h=670&q= 60&w=1000&s=9e5962e11c092cacd21377774aba5757

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae154/murray-eliminator/internet%20bikes/twowheeldrivebike.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007W86IE

On Wed, 18 May 2016 12:22:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/18/2016 11:15 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

I suggest that you reserve judgment until you've seen their ideas. If
you look at the history of bicycle design, you'll probably seen many
aberrations and abominations. As a whole, they're probably
impractical and unsellable. However, there are some genuinely good
ideas among the lot worth emulating, building, and selling:
https://www.google.com/search?q=strange+bicycles&tbm=isch
Well, maybe just a few...

You forgot:

With these examples, I'm glad that I didn't remember. Some great
ideas are best forgotten.

http://img.gizmag.com/tretta.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&h=670&q= 60&w=1000&s=9e5962e11c092cacd21377774aba5757

Instead of eliminating the chain, the Tretta adds 3 more chains. More
like a giant step backwards. Since all wheel drive only does
something useful when both wheels are on the ground and have traction,
the all wheel drive is totally useless once either wheel leaves the
ground or slips in rain or mud. However, it might be useful on sand
with bigger diameter tires. Looks like a solution to a non-problem.

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae154/murray-eliminator/internet%20bikes/twowheeldrivebike.jpg

2 wheel drive, which adds a giant speedometer cable front drive
instead of added chain drives. Same problems at the Tretta. Lose
ground contact and all the technology does nothing.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007W86IE

Helical gear drive to a shaft in the right seat tube, which drives a
speedo cable in the seat tube, which then drives another drive shaft
and helical gear in the front fork.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/events/131-0601-2005-camp-jeep-pennsylvania/
http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys/Jeep-Rubicon-Sport-Mountain-Bike/2281507/product.html
If Jeep added powered training wheels, they could advertise it a 4
wheel drive bicycle. Aluminum frame, but I couldn't find how much it
weighs.

Thanks for the entertainment. I really needed it today.





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 6:44:46 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2016 12:22:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/18/2016 11:15 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

I suggest that you reserve judgment until you've seen their ideas. If
you look at the history of bicycle design, you'll probably seen many
aberrations and abominations. As a whole, they're probably
impractical and unsellable. However, there are some genuinely good
ideas among the lot worth emulating, building, and selling:
https://www.google.com/search?q=strange+bicycles&tbm=isch
Well, maybe just a few...

You forgot:

With these examples, I'm glad that I didn't remember. Some great
ideas are best forgotten.

http://img.gizmag.com/tretta.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&h=670&q= 60&w=1000&s=9e5962e11c092cacd21377774aba5757

Instead of eliminating the chain, the Tretta adds 3 more chains. More
like a giant step backwards. Since all wheel drive only does
something useful when both wheels are on the ground and have traction,
the all wheel drive is totally useless once either wheel leaves the
ground or slips in rain or mud. However, it might be useful on sand
with bigger diameter tires. Looks like a solution to a non-problem.

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae154/murray-eliminator/internet%20bikes/twowheeldrivebike.jpg

2 wheel drive, which adds a giant speedometer cable front drive
instead of added chain drives. Same problems at the Tretta. Lose
ground contact and all the technology does nothing.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007W86IE

Helical gear drive to a shaft in the right seat tube, which drives a
speedo cable in the seat tube, which then drives another drive shaft
and helical gear in the front fork.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/events/131-0601-2005-camp-jeep-pennsylvania/
http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys/Jeep-Rubicon-Sport-Mountain-Bike/2281507/product.html
If Jeep added powered training wheels, they could advertise it a 4
wheel drive bicycle. Aluminum frame, but I couldn't find how much it
weighs.

Thanks for the entertainment. I really needed it today.





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

no problem

https://www.google.com/search?q=strange+bicycles&tbm=isch

eeyyehahhahah here's to Murray !

when your strange

ideas come out of the rain

with enough rain

funding is found

leading to

PRODUCTION

incroyable.

ROKON !

https://goo.gl/zmoyhb

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:11:06 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:44:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Lieb. You know the question arises after percolating ...
is there..I think of Tesla...a common parallel in electronics
to these imaginative dead ends at a 'better bicycle' ?
Example, think of ten still born electric motor designs producing
less power/cost after years/$$ development.

Certainly. The mechanism for any speculative venture is much the
same, no matter what the technology. Find a need, throw something
together to attract investors, built it, and then everyone sues
everyone else. It doesn't matter if it's a bicycle or an electric
car. If the need is lacking, hire the government to provide a
suitable crisis and interim financing. If you can find a need for a
bigger, better, faster, cheaper, etc bicycle, you too can be as
successful at Tesla.

You don't even need a real crisis -- just government regulation.

Anyway, the market for a recumbent with an IGH direct drive system is probably a couple hundred people. The smart money is on rowing bikes. http://www.rowbike.com/

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:27:14 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:11:06 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:44:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Lieb. You know the question arises after percolating ...
is there..I think of Tesla...a common parallel in electronics
to these imaginative dead ends at a 'better bicycle' ?
Example, think of ten still born electric motor designs producing
less power/cost after years/$$ development.

Certainly. The mechanism for any speculative venture is much the
same, no matter what the technology. Find a need, throw something
together to attract investors, built it, and then everyone sues
everyone else. It doesn't matter if it's a bicycle or an electric
car. If the need is lacking, hire the government to provide a
suitable crisis and interim financing. If you can find a need for a
bigger, better, faster, cheaper, etc bicycle, you too can be as
successful at Tesla.

You don't even need a real crisis -- just government regulation.

Anyway, the market for a recumbent with an IGH direct drive system is probably a couple hundred people. The smart money is on rowing bikes. http://www.rowbike.com/

-- Jay Beattie.

super ...ideal for riunners with knee inuries...now there's a market

apparently hiring Rolloff PR

The Rowbike Crew 2.0 utilizes the revolutionary NuVinci N360 internal gear hub which gives you continuous, infinite gearing within range

I have a new soldering gun does this....a Weller 8200.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 17:27:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:11:06 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:44:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Lieb. You know the question arises after percolating ...
is there..I think of Tesla...a common parallel in electronics
to these imaginative dead ends at a 'better bicycle' ?
Example, think of ten still born electric motor designs producing
less power/cost after years/$$ development.

Certainly. The mechanism for any speculative venture is much the
same, no matter what the technology. Find a need, throw something
together to attract investors, built it, and then everyone sues
everyone else. It doesn't matter if it's a bicycle or an electric
car. If the need is lacking, hire the government to provide a
suitable crisis and interim financing. If you can find a need for a
bigger, better, faster, cheaper, etc bicycle, you too can be as
successful at Tesla.

You don't even need a real crisis -- just government regulation.

Anyway, the market for a recumbent with an IGH direct drive system is probably a couple hundred people. The smart money is on rowing bikes. http://www.rowbike.com/

-- Jay Beattie.

I read the site and was particularly interested in their specification
of 400 calories of energy per 20 minute of rowing.

Back when we were living on the sail boat I used to see an old fellow
rowing down the bay early in the morning and then I'd see him rowing
back late in the evening, about 12 hours later. The mind boggles at
the ((12 x 60)/20) X 400 calories he must have been burning :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 07:13:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/17/2016 6:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2016 22:02:40 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2016 17:18:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://velotegra.com/wordpress1/home/

Be sure to click the patent link and read description on
page 24.

I read some of the patent and was left wondering if it can be made to
work. It seems excessively complicated. What I noticed missing from
the web pages are photos of the completed planetary gear drive,
specifications, gear ratios, gear range, efficiency tests, test rides,
and such. In other words, all the usual stuff needed to convince
skeptics like me that the device actually exists.
"One of the most promising applications of the Sprocket Hub
design is the direct-drive recumbent bicycle (shown above but
with an earlier single-speed hub)"

More of the same (that seems to exist):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1941379991/kervelo-bike-and-tilting-trike
http://www.gizmag.com/kervelo-front-wheel-drive-recumbent-bike/41486/

Somewhere I've seen a system that used balls instead of teeth to
produce a "gear system"but for the life of me I can't remember where.
Of course there are overrunning clutches that work in a similar manner
but transfer motion only one direction.


http://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-content...magazine_1.jpg

Yes, that is the one.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 17:27:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:11:06 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:44:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Lieb. You know the question arises after percolating ...
is there..I think of Tesla...a common parallel in electronics
to these imaginative dead ends at a 'better bicycle' ?
Example, think of ten still born electric motor designs producing
less power/cost after years/$$ development.

Certainly. The mechanism for any speculative venture is much the
same, no matter what the technology. Find a need, throw something
together to attract investors, built it, and then everyone sues
everyone else. It doesn't matter if it's a bicycle or an electric
car. If the need is lacking, hire the government to provide a
suitable crisis and interim financing. If you can find a need for a
bigger, better, faster, cheaper, etc bicycle, you too can be as
successful at Tesla.

You don't even need a real crisis -- just government regulation.

Government regulations usually appear after a real or imaginary
crisis. "We're the government and we're here to help". It would not
do to impose regulations without a suitable problem in need of solving
because it might look to the GUM (great unwashed masses) that the
government was favoring one particular technology, industry, or
consortium of favored contributors. Can't have that happen. However,
should there ever be a real crisis, the standard mode of "do
something, even if it's wrong" is equally effective at redistributing
the tax revenue.

Anyway, the market for a recumbent with an IGH direct drive
system is probably a couple hundred people.

The only difference between a direct drive system on the front or rear
wheels is the direction of travel. By simply reversing the direction
of travel of a recumbent, I suppose a front wheel direct drive
recumbent might be constructed.

The smart money is on rowing bikes. http://www.rowbike.com/
-- Jay Beattie.

Did you notice in the video that all the rides were on either flat or
slightly downhill paths? I want to see what happens when it tries to
do a hill climb.

I find it odd that many rowing bicycles only use upper body power,
while ignoring the much stronger leg power. Some get it right:
http://www.rowingbike.com/en/
http://www.rowingbike.com/en/modellen/ (cable drive)
or almost right:
http://rowingbike.free.fr/round-rowing.gif
or overdone:
http://www.sculltrek.sk/index.php?lang=en
http://www.sculltrek.sk/index.php?lang=en&sekcia=video

Another problem is that the rider, or rather the power source, is
facing the wrong direction. Rowing bicycles should be built like a
row boat, with the rider facing backwards and maybe a big mirror,
periscope, or LCD display as a concession to visibility. All of the
rowing bikes are facing forward, with a reversing gear of some sorts,
which wastes power.

More rowing bicycles:
http://rowingbike.free.fr


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558