"Confusion reigns as states reverse course on 'essential' status forbike shops"

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

On 4/10/2020 5:25 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!


I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like
the man. Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and
at least one person here (me) will not call you names for
that. I don't much like him myself, but he's done a very
good job.

Quickly name another head of state who banned travel from
China in January while the Chinese were busy arresting
doctors who went against the 'nothing to see here' Party
line. Banned travel from China as Fauci was telling USAians
'not to worry' (cited here yesterday). You cannot.

You dislike him, OK, but there's no need to invent things he
has plenty of sins of his own as anyone who hears me scream
at the radio will attest.

in re costs-
Are you out of work yourself? Do you have to care for minor
children while the union teachers get full pay for even less
than their usual lousy performance? Are you late on April's
rent? If not, you can shut up about costs any time. I can't
name any historical precedent for ruining a culture so fast
and so decisively in a suicidal (new term civiticidal?
sociocidal?) fit. There's real pain out there and I see it
up close every day. Governors who ordered shutdowns ought to
be shot in the street. (I'm looking at you, Mike DeWine, as
I never expected anything sensible from the local party hack.)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:06:25 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 6:31:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2020 7:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 2:31:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2020 3:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:37:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:05:18 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 8:07:15 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 2:24:14 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:51:40 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:53:05 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2020 2:15 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 08.04.2020 um 02:24 schrieb AMuzi:

I agree with you. These are anecdotes but there aren't
anecdotes of harm and as I've written frequently lately,
we'll know a lot more in a couple of years.

Yes, anecdotes of harm go round as well, of people who took
the stuff without medical supervision and killed themselves
with it.

It is *always* a bad idea to propose some medicine to the
public rather than proposing medicine to doctors who
prescribe it to sufferers.

Uh, that was a murder. She poisoned her husband (once for
practice and recently fatal on the second adventure)

Prescription of hydrochloroqine implicated in death by heart
failure last occurred about 10 years ago despite some
300,000 maintenance prescriptions among Lupus sufferers.

https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-t...alarial-drugs/

Note condraindications are after sustained use for years.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hydroxychloroquine may be safe and effective in COVID-19
patients, but we -- meaning us people on this NG -- don't know.
The FDA, CDC, NIH have the research and adverse incident reports. Real
scientific-like people will make the determination.

Presidents touting an untried drug leads to: (1) people killing
themselves with fish medicine or knock-off drugs sold on the internet, (2)
hoarding, (3) inflated expectations of miracle cures, and (4)
distraction from proven therapies. You don't just throw ****
out to make a media splash.

-- Jay Beattie.

What you mean is that YOU don't know and are intent on remaining
that way. If I hadn't actually looked it up how do you think that
I would know the actual recommended dosages for Malaria, Lupus and covid-19.

Oh, that's right, I'm bull****ting you because you say so.

Not because I say so, because you demonstrate a fundamental lack
of understanding of most things -- from simple Di2 installation to
economics to medicine. You are a reliable source of unreliable
information. You read a couple of internet articles and think you
know virtually everything about everything.

I'm willing to admit that there are real-live medical
professionals that actually know stuff about virology and cellular
metabolism and the actual mechanism of action for
Hydroxychloroquine. Read this and then send us an explanation of
why it works to prevent the replication of certain viruses:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8278823 This should be well
within your high school science education.

-- Jay Beattie.

What I can say about you is that you are a reliable source for
providing information that you have no understanding of but which
you believe contradicts me.

All that source said is that IF that is an anti-inflammatory it
operates more slowly the glucosteroids or non-steroidal
anti-inflamatories. You continually miss things such as

"It is proposed that the antirheumatic properties of these
compounds results from their interference with "antigen processing"
in macrophages and other antigen-presenting cells."

This means that none of their personal beliefs have been tested or
that the tests that oppose their opinions haven't been
substantiates with further studies.

Lupus and Arthritis are diseases that are caused by inflammation
due to the immune system responses. So, hydroxychloroquine either
reduces inflation (which it absolutely does in the cases of
covid-19 causes ARDS or it has another pathway that accomplishes the same thing.

There is nothing that you won't argue about simply because you
don't like me and will, like News18 - some stupid foreigner arguing
about Trump's worth - say absolutely anything in an attempt to
discredit me. You have never worked in these areas and I have. You
have never been a scientist for one day of your life and I have
spend 50 years in the field. Unlike Frank who simply tries to
discredit my experience by saying that he doesn't believe it as if
I could care what he thinks, you want to suggest I don't know what
I'm talking about by putting put absolute idiocy that you can't even understand.

I will say it again, it is pretty plain why you never made Partner
in the firm. Your legal mind has a lot of gaps.

Hmmm. I've been getting a K-1 for 27 years. Must be a mistake. And
you're wrong about the mechanism of Chloroquine as a treatment for
coronavirus. Read this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102587/

According to your CV, you were a tech and not a "scientist." No
college and relatively brief employments at a collection of
employers. I see nothing indicating any education in cellular
biology. Am I missing something?

-- Jay Beattie.

According to you then Thomas Edison, the Wright Brothers and Henry
Ford were not scientists. Just people who happen to work as mechanics.

My education was entirely self induced and no less than those of a
PhD or five whom I was forced to correct on many occasions. You are
entirely unaware of the weaknesses of a professional education
without the actual practical knowledge that actually working in the field brings.

They have showed the testing procedures and the machines they are
using to test for covid-19 on the media many times now. At first I
suspected that these were nothing more than stock photos from company
advertisements. But in several they showed the proper sample bottles
which are not normally used in these settings. The machine being used
was developed by someone other than me and the very method they use
for testing spreads any viruses about. This is what you get when you
use college educated people to do these sorts of things.

On the poison gas detectors for the military I accepted the formulas
they gave me for the reactions of the devices used for the actual
detection. I could not get these things to work properly. Finally I
decided that these PhD's didn't know what they were doing and worked
out all of the details myself and discovered that these people didn't
know what in the hell they were doing. I used my own formulas, tested
them in the actual gas chambers where precise gas levels were known
and then my programs worked perfectly.

So much self-reported brilliance!

Any luck with the job search?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Who has offered to employ you?

I turned down work, Tom. The university wanted me to stay on. The
department members wanted my continued advice. I said "Sorry, I'm going
to be the retired guy."

Unlike you, I'm very content with my life and am far from hurting for
money. Hey, I buy groceries with no complaints!


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now its a university is it. What became of the high school you spoke of originally?


I don’t recall Frank ever claiming to have been a high school teacher.
Maybe your recall is faulty.

Maybe?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:30:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like the man.

Basically, I've never expected pealrs of wisdom ffrom his lips.


Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and at least one person
here (me) will not call you names for that. I don't much like him
myself, but he's done a very good job.

Quickly name another head of state who banned travel from China in
January

Bummer, Slomo did it for Feb 1st, but then he isn't called "too little-
too late" for nothing

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...ams-us-ban-as-
who-warns-local-outbreaks/11921416

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:30:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like the man.

Basically, I've never expected pealrs of wisdom ffrom his lips.


Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and at least one person
here (me) will not call you names for that. I don't much like him
myself, but he's done a very good job.

Quickly name another head of state who banned travel from China in
January

Bummer, Slomo did it for Feb 1st, but then he isn't called "too little-
too late" for nothing

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...ams-us-ban-as-
who-warns-local-outbreaks/11921416

You are a foreigner in a foreign land. Perhaps you can tell us what business it is of yours what leader we elect if he isn't making war on you?

On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co..
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does..
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling..
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions..

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives..

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.