Unintended consequences

On 1/4/2021 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:33:21 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 8:00:19 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Never road a Brooks and hate the look but are they really better?
Deacon Mark

Well, they are relatively expensive for a bicycle saddle, they require
"breaking in" and are extremely uncomfortable for the first, perhaps,
1,000 miles, they have to be protected from getting wet else they
stretch and being leather need frequent applications of leather
dressing which Brooks will sell you for only 17 dollars for 30 ml.

On the other hand some people feel that they are exceptionally
comfortable for long rides.

I had a friend who was a marathon runner. I introduced him to cycling.
He bought a lovely bike with a Brooks saddle. He used it on a 200 mile
weekend invitational ride, about 100 miles of which were in the rain. He
used no fenders or mudguards.

When he finished, the saddle was soaked and very misshapen, with deep
pockets where his sit bones contacted it. But for as long as I knew him,
he claimed it was extremely comfortable. So I wonder if that's the
proper way to break in a Brooks leather saddle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:31:09 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 9:23:41 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/4/2021 6:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/

There have been a lot of consequences from Brexit, whether intended,
unintended, or simply not understood.

The voters of the U.K. were not voting based on what was best for
themselves economically. They didn't want immigrants from Eastern
European EU countries to continue coming in. Of course that will have
negative effects on industries that depended on those workers, just as
we've seen the negative effects in the U.S. in certain industries
(dairies, meat processing, fruit and vegetable harvesting).

Brexit has also made UK exports less expensive as the pound's value has
plunged, and it's made visiting the UK less expensive.

The charts don't indicate that the Pound has plunged against the USD or the Euro. Am I missing something?

I'm not sure what effect if any Brexit will have on the price of Brooks saddles in the US. I haven't checked the Harmonized Tariff Schedule to see if we're punishing the UK for anything or attempting to protect the vast US leather saddle manufacturing industry. I also need to review the administration's recently negotiated, bigly America is Great and England Lost the War of Independence International Leather Bicycle Saddle Compact and Trade Understanding. I hear we beat the UK like a dog. Brooks saddles may be practically free now.

-- Jay Beattie.

But Brooks is currently owned by an Italian company and while the
actual construction seems to take place in England the completed
saddles are then shipped to Italy and sold through the Italian company
so it appears that some sort of import duty will be levied on Brooks
saddles upon arrival in England for sale as they "originate" in the
EU.

The question then is the U.S. penalizing Italy for some misdemeanor?
Will the drones be flying over St. Peters?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 12:49:55 AM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/4/2021 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:33:21 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 8:00:19 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Never road a Brooks and hate the look but are they really better?
Deacon Mark

Well, they are relatively expensive for a bicycle saddle, they require
"breaking in" and are extremely uncomfortable for the first, perhaps,
1,000 miles, they have to be protected from getting wet else they
stretch and being leather need frequent applications of leather
dressing which Brooks will sell you for only 17 dollars for 30 ml.

On the other hand some people feel that they are exceptionally
comfortable for long rides.
I had a friend who was a marathon runner. I introduced him to cycling.
He bought a lovely bike with a Brooks saddle. He used it on a 200 mile
weekend invitational ride, about 100 miles of which were in the rain. He
used no fenders or mudguards.

When he finished, the saddle was soaked and very misshapen, with deep
pockets where his sit bones contacted it. But for as long as I knew him,
he claimed it was extremely comfortable. So I wonder if that's the
proper way to break in a Brooks leather saddle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Yo, Franki-boy, go out there and proclaim your vision for "the proper way to break in a Brooks leather saddle" through a megaphone. You'll soon discover that stoning is alive and well among The Cyclists.

Andre Jute
My good deed for the month.

On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 17:34:27 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/4/2021 4:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:33:21 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 8:00:19 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Never road a Brooks and hate the look but are they really better?
Deacon Mark

Well, they are relatively expensive for a bicycle saddle, they require
"breaking in" and are extremely uncomfortable for the first, perhaps,
1,000 miles, they have to be protected from getting wet else they
stretch and being leather need frequent applications of leather
dressing which Brooks will sell you for only 17 dollars for 30 ml.

On the other hand some people feel that they are exceptionally
comfortable for long rides.

My own experience is that after riding one for a year or more I
switched to a modern "plastic" saddle that fits me just as well and is
just as comfortable as the Brooks. And was cheaper and requires
essentially no care.


I use modern (well, 1970s modern) synthetic saddles on my
bicycles but a leather saddle is arguably not different in
the areas you mention than leather shoes (cost, break-in,
avoid wet, shoe polish occasionally).

I wear leather shoes, no complaints. Other people prefer
asian made synthetic shoes with rubber soles. Whatever,
neither is 'good' nor 'bad' in itself.

True, and I have a pair of leather shoes reserved for wear at
functions where I wear a suit -weddings, funerals, etc., but for
everyday wear I wouldn't consider it for town or city wear now-a-days,
particularly as "modern" styles, as demonstrated by the average USian
tourist here is so much more relaxed :-)

I say "town or city" as back in the day when I was working in the bush
I wore nothing but Red Wing boots, well I did until they raised their
price to $100 a pair which in those days was a shocking amount of
money :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 19:49:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski scribed:

On 1/4/2021 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:33:21 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 8:00:19 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton.../brexit-halts-
sales-of-brooks-bicycle-saddles-made-in-england/
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Never road a Brooks and hate the look but are they really better?
Deacon Mark

Well, they are relatively expensive for a bicycle saddle, they require
"breaking in" and are extremely uncomfortable for the first, perhaps,
1,000 miles, they have to be protected from getting wet else they
stretch and being leather need frequent applications of leather
dressing which Brooks will sell you for only 17 dollars for 30 ml.

On the other hand some people feel that they are exceptionally
comfortable for long rides.

I had a friend who was a marathon runner. I introduced him to cycling.
He bought a lovely bike with a Brooks saddle. He used it on a 200 mile
weekend invitational ride, about 100 miles of which were in the rain. He
used no fenders or mudguards.

When he finished, the saddle was soaked and very misshapen, with deep
pockets where his sit bones contacted it. But for as long as I knew him,
he claimed it was extremely comfortable. So I wonder if that's the
proper way to break in a Brooks leather saddle.

As always, YMMV, but it works.
That was the advice for good old leather boots at one stage.
the problem with seats is that what is comfortable for one may not for
another as riding style and the 'structure' of posteriors varies.

On 1/5/21 12:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 3:28:59 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/4/2021 3:48 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/4/21 6:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 9:23:41 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/4/2021 6:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/





There have been a lot of consequences from Brexit, whether
intended,
unintended, or simply not understood.

The voters of the U.K. were not voting based on what was
best for themselves economically. They didn't want
immigrants from Eastern European EU countries to continue
coming in. Of course that will have negative effects on
industries that depended on those
workers, just as we've seen the negative effects in the
U.S. in
certain industries (dairies, meat processing, fruit and
vegetable harvesting).

Brexit has also made UK exports less expensive as the
pound's
value has plunged, and it's made visiting the UK less
expensive.

The charts don't indicate that the Pound has plunged
against the USD or the Euro. Am I missing something?


https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...o=EUR&view=10Y

I'm not sure what effect if any Brexit will have on the
price of Brooks saddles in the US. I haven't checked the
Harmonized Tariff Schedule to see if we're punishing the
UK for anything or attempting to protect the vast US
leather saddle manufacturing industry. I
also need to review the administration's recently
negotiated, bigly America is Great and England Lost the
War of Independence International Leather Bicycle Saddle
Compact and Trade
Understanding. I hear we beat the UK like a dog. Brooks
saddles may
be practically free now.

The beeutiful Made In The USA saddles will make America
Great ugely. Can you believe we never, until, I mean, can
you believe nobody made saddles before we did with the
penguins, amazing, and we are on the point of creating a
beeutiful thing called a whycycle, to go with the bootiful
saddles. I hear it will have wheels! Can you believe that?
Amazing.

Uh, USA does produce quality leather saddles:
https://selleanatomica.com/

This is not news, been around for 25 or more years.

As an old friend , a leatherworker, used to quip, "Leather
is cheap here because it's a byproduct of the hamburger
industry."

Who knew! I had actually never heard of that company or seen its saddles. We should tariff the sh** out of those imported Brooks saddles! We'll make the UK pay!

BTW, that slit looks nasty. I'd be afraid of that.

They do a non slitted version, mainly they cater for a different market.
The "Skirt"[1] is cut shorter like a racing saddle to prevent chafing.
Brooks are longer. Also, Brooks are lapped much further over the
rails to, depending on your view, to improve longevity or provide a
space for the Brooks badge. The Brooks equivalent would be the Swallow.

https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/swallow.html

My oldest B17 is just coming up on 30 years old. My preferred treatment
is either the Brooks wax which comes with them or halfway decent shoe
polish.

[1] I have no idea of the anatomy of a bicycle saddle.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 1:39:11 AM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/5/21 12:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 3:28:59 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/4/2021 3:48 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/4/21 6:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 9:23:41 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/4/2021 6:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...de-in-england/





There have been a lot of consequences from Brexit, whether
intended,
unintended, or simply not understood.

The voters of the U.K. were not voting based on what was
best for themselves economically. They didn't want
immigrants from Eastern European EU countries to continue
coming in. Of course that will have negative effects on
industries that depended on those
workers, just as we've seen the negative effects in the
U.S. in
certain industries (dairies, meat processing, fruit and
vegetable harvesting).

Brexit has also made UK exports less expensive as the
pound's
value has plunged, and it's made visiting the UK less
expensive.

The charts don't indicate that the Pound has plunged
against the USD or the Euro. Am I missing something?


https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...o=EUR&view=10Y

I'm not sure what effect if any Brexit will have on the
price of Brooks saddles in the US. I haven't checked the
Harmonized Tariff Schedule to see if we're punishing the
UK for anything or attempting to protect the vast US
leather saddle manufacturing industry. I
also need to review the administration's recently
negotiated, bigly America is Great and England Lost the
War of Independence International Leather Bicycle Saddle
Compact and Trade
Understanding. I hear we beat the UK like a dog. Brooks
saddles may
be practically free now.

The beeutiful Made In The USA saddles will make America
Great ugely. Can you believe we never, until, I mean, can
you believe nobody made saddles before we did with the
penguins, amazing, and we are on the point of creating a
beeutiful thing called a whycycle, to go with the bootiful
saddles. I hear it will have wheels! Can you believe that?
Amazing.

Uh, USA does produce quality leather saddles:
https://selleanatomica.com/

This is not news, been around for 25 or more years.

As an old friend , a leatherworker, used to quip, "Leather
is cheap here because it's a byproduct of the hamburger
industry."

Who knew! I had actually never heard of that company or seen its saddles. We should tariff the sh** out of those imported Brooks saddles! We'll make the UK pay!

BTW, that slit looks nasty. I'd be afraid of that.
They do a non slitted version, mainly they cater for a different market.
The "Skirt"[1] is cut shorter like a racing saddle to prevent chafing.
Brooks are longer. Also, Brooks are lapped much further over the
rails to, depending on your view, to improve longevity or provide a
space for the Brooks badge. The Brooks equivalent would be the Swallow.

https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/swallow.html

My oldest B17 is just coming up on 30 years old. My preferred treatment
is either the Brooks wax which comes with them or halfway decent shoe
polish.

[1] I have no idea of the anatomy of a bicycle saddle.

I have no experience with the slit leather saddles, but they just looked like a gaping maw ready to eat my private pats. Plastic versions tend to have more padding at the edges. https://www.sefiles.net/images/libra...le-54624-1.jpg

I had an Ideal leather saddles in the olden days and a Brooks Team Pro that came OE on my 1988 Cannondale T100. I swapped the Brooks for a Unicanitor or an Ideal 2002 plastic saddle. Leather was never comfortable for me, but my wife did like the Brooks. In the wet PNW, I remember the Brooks growing mold fur in winter out in the garage.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 2:47:34 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
In the wet PNW, I remember the Brooks growing mold fur in winter out in the garage.

What sort of cheapskate doesn't heat the garage where he keeps his bicycles? -- AJ

On 1/4/2021 9:48 PM, News 2021 wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 19:49:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski scribed:

I had a friend who was a marathon runner. I introduced him to cycling.
He bought a lovely bike with a Brooks saddle. He used it on a 200 mile
weekend invitational ride, about 100 miles of which were in the rain. He
used no fenders or mudguards.

When he finished, the saddle was soaked and very misshapen, with deep
pockets where his sit bones contacted it. But for as long as I knew him,
he claimed it was extremely comfortable. So I wonder if that's the
proper way to break in a Brooks leather saddle.

As always, YMMV, but it works.
That was the advice for good old leather boots at one stage.
the problem with seats is that what is comfortable for one may not for
another as riding style and the 'structure' of posteriors varies.

Yep. Or as I said, we're all different down there.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 8:24:37 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 2:47:34 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
In the wet PNW, I remember the Brooks growing mold fur in winter out in the garage.

What sort of cheapskate doesn't heat the garage where he keeps his bicycles? -- AJ

I've never had a heated garage. I don't think that is even a thing here in the U.S. except maybe in a condo building or some super-modern construction. It certainly is not the norm on the west coast. The particular garage in question was also detached with a covered breezeway into my old house, so it would require a separate heating system, which would certainly drive up the effective cost of a leather saddle. No climate control required for a Unicanitor. I could store it underwater.

-- Jay Beattie.