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#11
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On May 20, 12:54*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article , * * * * Brent P writes: http://articles.citypages.com/2008-0.../moles-wanted/ Seems the old police and federal moles infiltrating groups and then possibly starting violence is still alive and well. /Avoid/ Critical Mass?! Yes, why avoid critical mass? After all, the best way to get people to see your point of view is to act like a complete dick and break a bunch of laws. nate |
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#12
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On 2008-05-20, Tom Keats wrote:
In article , Brent P writes: But it sounds more to me like you're trying to scare-off "upstart" cyclists from claiming our due space on the streets. Nice one there Tom. Still the same I see. Considering I have oh probably a few thousand posts defending a bicyclist's right to road, you're just well, full of ****. And you're cyclists' official spokesperson (in r.a.d.) Yeah, right. LOl. Still making stuff up. You replied to me and made a claim about what I was 'trying to' do. It's not my fault you didn't rub two brain cells together before spewing. Go spread your FUD in your garden, where it belongs. aww... poor baby. |
#13
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On 2008-05-20, Tom Keats wrote:
In article , Brent P writes: On 2008-05-20, Tom Keats wrote: In article , Brent P writes: http://articles.citypages.com/2008-0.../moles-wanted/ Seems the old police and federal moles infiltrating groups and then possibly starting violence is still alive and well. /Avoid/ Critical Mass?! Hell, it seems like we've gotta rush to its aid! It was a bit of humor, because there are all sorts of reasons to avoid it that it didn't need government moles. Went over your head I suppose. Excuses -- Faah! Nischt gefloygen. Humour, eh? Nobody's laffin'. I takes you two posts to do this? ... I propose Critical mass stop being assholes who run red signals and generally make asses of themselves by ignoring even the most basic rules of the roads, those rules that even allow bicyclists to use the same road system as other bicyclists. Like I posted a few weeks ago or so, I think it would be amusing to assert right of way (green signal) ROW is always given; never taken. If that's the case, then might makes right and motorists need not give right of way and just use the size of their vehicles to run those on smaller ones off the road or run red signals in front of them, etc. You didn't really think that out did you? while bicycling as these critical massholes are running the red. Either their heads would asplode or they would just react with violence. Your own reaction sounds pretty violent, itself. LOL.... it's violent to want to go on green instead of sitting there waiting for a bunch of asshats. You're pretty mad at Critical Mass, aren't you? No. Just tired of asshats like CM, wrong way riders, red light runners, gutter passers etc who **** off other people who then, when they see a lone bicyclist take out their frustations on that lone bicyclist. It's a group that makes things worse, not better. But I ask you to bear these thoughts in mind: wrt Critical Mass, we're talking about urban streets, not the open road. It's a completely different environment. Yeah, it's an environment where timing green signals is important, especially to a bicyclist, otherwise he ends up stopping every few hundred feet! Have you ever been a non-driver in a city, trying to get from A to B, but can't because of the steady stream of commuters transiting from their job in one suburb, to their home in another suberb, and they're just blasting through your neighbourhood and would knock you down like a bowling pin if you got in their way? In /your/ own bailywick? I've ridden in chicago and suburban chicago since I could ride a bicycle. I got my first adult sized bicycle in 1982. That's 26 years of urban and suburban street riding. So, give up the stupid argument that because I also drive a car I don't know what's it like to bike. Another amusing thing about CM's idiotcy is that they go around ****ing off drivers in downtown chicago, in the loop. That's the most bicycle friendly part of this area IMO because traffic speeds are bicycle speeds. Hell I've cruised in the left lane pasing traffic to my right keeping up with the car in front of me in the loop for blocks on end and had no problems from drivers. Critical Mass is a reaction against that selfishness. In its best incarnations, it transcends selfishness, while reminding drivers they can also transcend their own selfishness, and maybe cheer up a little. See here you go again slipping into this 'us vs. them' crapola. Here's the thing Tom, your critical massholes aren't making conditions better. I've had drivers try to knock me off the road or ignore my left turn signal and pass me on the left and other asshattery and you know how they justify their actions to me when I catch up to them? They justify it with 'you bicycle riders don't follow the law' type bull****. So, here's a clue, when you purposely go out and decide to take revenge on the few motorists who are a problem by ****ing off anyone who happens to be driving all you accomplish is to make more motorists who are going to be a problem to bicyclists. It's basically GWB's offical war-on-terror idea that by bombing people, by killing civilians and making a mess of people's lives in general that's going to get them to stop being terrorists. In reality it ****es people off who had no axe to grind and causes them to pick up the fight. At its worst, Critical Mass is a mirror that reflects the behaviours of selfish people back at themselves. No, what that is doing is ****ing off people by their choice of vehicle. They aren't mirror to the individuals that being a mirror to is effective. That CM behavior gives justification to those drivers that are a problem and then adds more to their ranks when drivers who weren't a problem mirror CM back to every bicyclist they see. No wonder they get ****ed off. Too bad those selfish people are too selfish to realize they're ****ing off a bunch of other people too. What about the driver like me who is a bicyclist too? What about the driver who has always respected bicyclists right to the road? Why **** them off? Because they drive? So what happens when these drivers who weren't doing wrong towards bicyclists decide to 'mirror' CM's behavior to anyone on a bicycle? What then? I've encountered those people on the road. They use the same reasoning you give for critical mass's behavior. Brent, I think you're a good and decent guy. shrug maybe a little too affected by car people, but maybe that can be remedied. I like cars and bicycles. Sorry that shorts out your circuits. I drive and bike and follow the rules of right of way with each. The ****ed-offedness you experience once a month by CM rides is the ****ed-offedness we non-drivers experience ~daily~ as you drivers blithely steal our ROWs, and cut us off from where we need to go. I bike a good deal Tom. You keep forgeting that. I don't gutter pass. I don't run red signals, I even signal. I also assert my right of way. I realized ****ing off people just because they drove was the height of stupidity, but then people like you keep doing just that. If you really want to get back at those drivers who make life miserable for bicyclists for sport, the ones that are the problem, without turning other drivers to their ranks, ride 100% to the vehicle code. Simple as that. It ****es them off and they have nothing to argue with. Plus no collateral damage. But don't listen to me. I'm just full o' ****. Silly me, I don't want more drivers gunning for a lone bicyclist because some group of riders ****ed them off. |
#14
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
Brent P writes:
I propose Critical mass stop being assholes who run red signals and generally make asses of themselves by ignoring even the most basic rules of the roads, those rules that even allow bicyclists to [yada yada yada] ... =v= Same old same old. *Yawn!* =v= Proposals work better when they're not based on false presuppositions, and also when they don't call people names. Despite the occasional media-exaggerated incidents of road rage (things that happen the other 353 days of the year, too), Critical Mass has continued to thrive for 15 years and has spread to over 400 locations worldwide. _Jym_ P.S.: Your ongoing "Critical Mas is blah blah blah" tirades have nothing to do with the news item that you posted. |
#15
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Another reason NOT to avoid critical mass...
http://articles.citypages.com/2008-0.../moles-wanted/
Seems the old police and federal moles infiltrating groups and then possibly starting violence is still alive and well. /Avoid/ Critical Mass?! Hell, it seems like we've gotta rush to its aid! =v= Exactly right. If one thing good came out of the NYPD's attack on bicyclists during the 2004 RNC, it was the great outpouring of support from some of the best people in their fields: from civil rights lawyers to Pulitzer-prize winners to moviemakers and the many other creative talents who live in New YorK City. =v= The NYPD got a pile of "anti-terrorist" money and nasty toys in 2004, which they've used to harrass dissenters with ever since. The Minneapolis police has already shown a particular tendency to misuse their toys as well. You can support their CM's current legal struggle he http://cmsupport.wordpress.com/ _Jym_ |
#16
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
Not only was C-M not mentioned in the alleged "news story" (I
say alleged and punctuate "news story" because it wasn't news, just the unsubstantiated claims of a pseudonymous "source" accompanied some thinly veiled editorializing by the writer and the predictable outrage of a C-M attorney) but the *only* mention of bicycles in the "news" portion appeared in the first sentence ... =v= Given the nature of the meeting under discussion, there can only be a sole unsubstantiated claim for it. His story can be found in slightly different form by a web search for "vegan potluck." The lawyer is part of the National Lawyers Guild, not "a CM attorney," whatever that's supposed to mean. =v= The article did mention CM later on, in particular the role of _agents_provocateur_ in the August 2007 Minneapolis ride, though it failed to point out that there are multiple sources corroborrating that information. It also mentioned videotaped evidence of one such infiltrator in the New York City ride; in fact there are mulitple videotapes of multiple such incidents. _Jym_ |
#17
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On 2008-05-20, Jym Dyer wrote:
Brent P writes: I propose Critical mass stop being assholes who run red signals and generally make asses of themselves by ignoring even the most basic rules of the roads, those rules that even allow bicyclists to [yada yada yada] ... =v= Same old same old. *Yawn!* =v= Proposals work better when they're not based on false presuppositions, and also when they don't call people names. Despite the occasional media-exaggerated incidents of road rage (things that happen the other 353 days of the year, too), Critical Mass has continued to thrive for 15 years and has spread to over 400 locations worldwide. ****ing off drivers world wide... It's classic GWB diplomacy. Anger everyone that looks like your enemy to get your enemy to stop doing bad things. Result = more enemy. Endless war. The Jesse Jackson theory of activism. P.S.: Your ongoing "Critical Mas is blah blah blah" tirades have nothing to do with the news item that you posted. There might be a whole half dozen threads I've been in regarding CM over the last decade and this is the only one I started... just a tad bit of exaggeration there. |
#18
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
In article ,
Bill Sornson wrote: That why you DELETED the rest of what Bob wrote? The article DID NOT MENTION C-M! Yes, it does. Third paragraph from the bottom. (Just checked to make sure. Whole piece seems a little /too/ blatant; cops/feds wouldn't be so cavalier.) As long as people like you keep believing that, their very audacity is their protection. -- There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. |
#19
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On May 20, 7:22 am, N8N wrote:
On May 20, 12:54 am, (Tom Keats) wrote: In article , Brent P writes: http://articles.citypages.com/2008-0.../moles-wanted/ Seems the old police and federal moles infiltrating groups and then possibly starting violence is still alive and well. /Avoid/ Critical Mass?! Yes, why avoid critical mass? After all, the best way to get people to see your point of view is to act like a complete dick and break a bunch of laws. Westboro Baptist is growing by leaps and bounds! |
#20
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Another reason to avoid critical mass...
On May 20, 10:36*am, Jym Dyer wrote:
Not only was C-M not mentioned in the alleged "news story" (I say alleged and punctuate "news story" because it wasn't news, just the unsubstantiated claims of a pseudonymous "source" accompanied some thinly veiled editorializing by the writer and the predictable outrage of a C-M attorney) but the *only* mention of bicycles in the "news" portion appeared in the first sentence ... =v= Given the nature of the meeting under discussion, there can only be a sole unsubstantiated claim for it. *His story can be found in slightly different form by a web search for "vegan potluck." *The lawyer is part of the National Lawyers Guild, not "a CM attorney," whatever that's supposed to mean. It means exactly what it sounds like, an attorney that represents Critical Mass. That was how the article described him, not as a member of the National Lawyers Guild. If you find that offensive, blame the CityPages author or better yet, just lighten up a little. =v= The article did mention CM later on, in particular the role of _agents_provocateur_ in the August 2007 Minneapolis ride, though it failed to point out that there are multiple sources corroborrating that information. *It also mentioned videotaped evidence of one such infiltrator in the New York City ride; in fact there are mulitple videotapes of multiple such incidents. Reread what I wrote before getting bent out of shape. Did the *article* mention C-M? Yes, but only after the writer stopped writing a "news story" and started editorializing. If that sounds like hairsplitting, it isn't. It's merely accuracy. If my placement of quotation marks around "news" when I wrote, "...the *only* mention of bicycles in the "news" portion appeared in the first sentence.", wasn't clear enough I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. Regards, Bob Hunt |
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