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#11
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann wrote: I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos), high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost! :-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following addresses for Tange Seiki :-) TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD 1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940 TEL:+81-72-224-9990 FAX:+81-72-224-9991 TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD. NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City 40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.) TEL:+886-4-2358-0100 FAX:+886-4-2358-0669 TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD. No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen, Guangdong, China TEL:+86-755-27742140 FAX:+86-755-27708372 It's not Tange's only product. Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made closer to actual bicycle factories.) The Tange family seems to have a lot of branches, of which Seiki is nly one. I believe that Tange bicycle frame tubes are/were rather an up-market product. The corporate addresses I posted show a common corporate practice for Japanese firms. First get started in the home land, then when salaries and other costs of business rise move to Taiwan and then to more countries with lower costs of doing business. Shimano, for example, has plants in Singapore, Malaysia and at least two sites in main land China. Minimum salary in Japan is in the US$7.40/hour range and in China it is approximately US$13.00/day. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#12
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 15:57:46 +0700, John B.
wrote: I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26 has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55. Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same spindle lengths. In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life? The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced version. Shimano cartridge bearing BB's seem to last forever. Haven't had one fail yet. And somehow the dirt just doesn't seem to get in. Can't think of how long its been since on had to be replaced. I use the cheapest ones I can find, too. |
#13
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On 4/8/2017 2:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann wrote: I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos), high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost! :-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following addresses for Tange Seiki :-) TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD 1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940 TEL:+81-72-224-9990 FAX:+81-72-224-9991 TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD. NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City 40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.) TEL:+886-4-2358-0100 FAX:+886-4-2358-0669 TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD. No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen, Guangdong, China TEL:+86-755-27742140 FAX:+86-755-27708372 It's not Tange's only product. Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made closer to actual bicycle factories.) The Tange family seems to have a lot of branches, of which Seiki is nly one. I believe that Tange bicycle frame tubes are/were rather an up-market product. The corporate addresses I posted show a common corporate practice for Japanese firms. First get started in the home land, then when salaries and other costs of business rise move to Taiwan and then to more countries with lower costs of doing business. Shimano, for example, has plants in Singapore, Malaysia and at least two sites in main land China. Minimum salary in Japan is in the US$7.40/hour range and in China it is approximately US$13.00/day. -- Cheers, John B. Sorry that's not right. Tange is not an unusual Japanese name. Tange Seiki is unrelated to Tange Inc. They're both in the Kansai (Osaka) area but the similarity ends there. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#14
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Cartridge bottom brackets
I have both the UN-26 and the UN-55 from Shimano. In Shimano-speak higher numbers mean better, more expensive. But actual price may not be all that much different, depending on what whichever component-pusher I'm shopping bought several container loads of most recently. My -55 for instance, was cheaper than the 26 listed at the same time. Neither was worn out when replaced for other reasons. Neither is serviceable, despite the implication of "cartridge", so I don't know how you would be able to tell if the bearings in the -55 are actually better, short of wearing it out, which is in fact pretty unlikely with a modern BB. In any event you generally have to take what you can get in the axle length you want.
A bottom bracket with a big rep in Europe, and a sub-Shimano price, is the Czech-made Kinex (a buck or two over a tenner, amazing) which I also had on my bikes and found no fault with (these give you a choice between steel, ali and plastic cups, if that matters to you; the designers of my most expensive bike apparently believe the minuscule flex in the plastic in worth having...). Not as pretty as the Shimano but who cares when the whole thing is hidden in the bottom bracket shell? Quite a few more expensively-branded bottom brackets under the fancy dress are in fact this Kinex, including at least one range of Stronglight. Andre Jute No boutique components, thank you On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 9:57:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote: I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26 has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55. Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same spindle lengths. In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life? The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced version. -- Cheers, John B. |
#15
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26 has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55. Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same spindle lengths. In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life? The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced version. -- Cheers, John B. I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it. |
#16
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it. Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle. Cheers |
#17
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it. Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle. Cheers We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different. |
#18
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:04:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it. Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle. Cheers We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different. That is true. However I do wish I'd been able to get images of the broken parts as it would have been interesting to discover how and why it broke. like i said, I've never seen or heard of another square taper cartridge bottom braket spindle breaking.. Cheers |
#19
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On 4/8/2017 12:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:04:42 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it. Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle. Cheers We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different. That is true. However I do wish I'd been able to get images of the broken parts as it would have been interesting to discover how and why it broke. like i said, I've never seen or heard of another square taper cartridge bottom braket spindle breaking.. I think that when square-taper spindles dominated the market, spindle breakages were common enough. I broke one at the taper/round junction, just outboard of the bearing surface, on my tandem (~1990). It didn't separate completely, just "peeled" partway in a spiral. The effect was of the crank suddenly tilting so that it gyrated as we pedaled. I think Jobst wrote that this was the common failure location/mode. I kept the spindle as a souvenir. Here is a pardo.net photo collection of similar failures, none quite like mine: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/0...ttom%20Bracket As square-taper spindles become rarer, so will these failures. Mark J. |
#20
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Cartridge bottom brackets
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26 has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55. Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same spindle lengths. In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life? The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced version. -- Cheers, John B. Yes, Tange's base of operations is in Taiwan. They then use cheap Chinese manufacturing for many of their mundane components. They also made some top of the line steel bicycle frame tubing for serious classics of the past, including bikes like my '92 Schwinn Paramount. Do not buy from Tange. They are now EVIL. Tange tried to steal my design back in 2012, costing me six figures in additional costs to bring Oculus to market compared to the licensing deal that Merry Sales signed, then broke when I rejected Tange's cheap crap unauthorized design changes. Tange and Merry Sales intended to do a cheap crap version of my light that would make them a quick buck, then the crap quality would leave me over and done with nothing left to show for it. So Tange and Merry Sales can rot in hell, but definitely do _Not buy Tange. Do go with Phil Wood bearings. The Best, for BB's, hubs, anywhere else on the bike. |
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