4W Quad Cree 1W Emitter MR16 Lamp for Dynamo System Project Completed

On Jul 5, 8:22*pm, SMS wrote:

If I ride in the center of the right lane
on a two lane road then the beam just reaches the sidewalk on the right
and shines into the opposing lane. This is a bit too wide of a beam.

I'm not so sure about that at all. I think you want to light up the
edge of the sidewalk and the sidewalk itself (to see pedestrians)
pretty close to you, which perforce means the spread of light further
away will spill over a lane to each side. One of the great
difficulties I have with the Cyo I use, even the R type which is
supposed to put more light on the road near you and to the sides, is
that there just isn't enough light to ride slowly on a rough edge of
the tarmac; the commuting equivalent would be riding near a gutter
full of broken glass and not being able to make it out clearly.

The Cyo, while I'm nitpicking about the best bicycle light ever made,
could also do itself a favour by throwing a spot more light above its
very straight horizon to help in spotting stop signs and other road
signs before it's too late. I bloody nearly collected a roadworks
machine, sweeping up on it around a curve at the bottom of a hill,
empty of cars in the hour before dawn so that I rode faster than I
normally manage there in daylight. I went back and checked: there was
a warning tiewrapped six feet above the road surface to a telegraph
pole but I never saw it because my Cyo cut off two or three feet below
it. Aaargh! That's one thing MR16 are good at, and also helping locate
one spatially in tunnels of trees or high hedgerows, such I ride in
all the time.

A 35 degree beam would be better than the present 50 degree beam or so.

I think 40 degrees would be more generally useful.

Incidentally, the argument, made here by Clive George a while ago,
that the Cyo focuses the light where you need it most, is crap. The
Cyo throws light further than you need downhill on narrow lanes at
45kph, which is already a dicey speed at night. Who's going to ride
muchfaster at night? They could easily have given a bit more to spread
at the expense of reach. I think it would make a more useful commuter
light too, if they did.

One good thing about the narrow beam of the Cyo is that when you use
it for a warning by sweeping it through a car whose driver is being
stupid, it is very clear that you're acting deliberately, whereas with
a wide-throw lamp the driver cannot be sure if you're targeting him or
merely weaving. The Cyo slows stupid drivers instantly!

Andre Jute
The light of my life

On Jul 4, 10:31*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,





*SMS wrote:
On 03/07/10 3:22 PM, James wrote:

snip

A wide beam angle has the advantage of throwing light on the
motorists waiting to pull out in front of you, one of the most
common hazards I face at night. *In my particular circumstance,
seeing the road is not an issue, being seen by the motorists is.

50 degrees is a bit wide. The problem is that most bicycle dynamo
lights are _far_ too narrow. This is by design because the limited
available light needs to be focused directly on the patch of road in
front of the bicycle, and they need to keep the cost down so the
optics are generally poor. The advent of higher power battery powered
lights with improved optics solved this problem, but dynamo lights
remained pretty poor until recently.

Nope, you *really* don't understand. *Or you have really poor night
vision, I am not sure which.

Are there dynamo powered lights that are equivalent to a Light &
Motion ARC HID headlight? Just curious. That's my commuting light.
That light is no where near over-kill for me. I do have poor night
vision -- particularly when it is raining and there is a lot of light
polution from other sources. -- Jay Beattie.

On 05/07/10 3:29 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip

Are there dynamo powered lights that are equivalent to a Light&
Motion ARC HID headlight?

Of course not.

Incidentally, it's rather easy these days to build yourself a low cost
HID headlight that's battery powered. You can get an H1 or H3 HID kit
from Dealextreme and use the bulbs in a driving light that uses H1 or H3
lamps.

However the HA-III SSC P7-C (SXO) 3-Mode 900-Lumen LED Bike Light Set is
probably close to the Light and Motion system and it costs less than $80
"http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149".

Just curious. That's my commuting light.
That light is no where near over-kill for me. I do have poor night
vision -- particularly when it is raining and there is a lot of light
polution from other sources. -- Jay Beattie.

You're still limited with a dynamo system to around 5 watts of power
(unless you get a 12V dynamo then you could probably get around 10
watts). The 900 lumen LED system uses about 20 watts.

Still, there's times when dynamo powered LED lamps can be sufficient for
night riding, something that was not the case for the older incandescent
dynamo lights. There's also the issue of reliability, which is much
greater with LED lights than it was with those 2.4W-3W incandescent bulbs.

On Jul 5, 11:29*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:31*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:





In article ,

*SMS wrote:
On 03/07/10 3:22 PM, James wrote:

snip

A wide beam angle has the advantage of throwing light on the
motorists waiting to pull out in front of you, one of the most
common hazards I face at night. *In my particular circumstance,
seeing the road is not an issue, being seen by the motorists is.

50 degrees is a bit wide. The problem is that most bicycle dynamo
lights are _far_ too narrow. This is by design because the limited
available light needs to be focused directly on the patch of road in
front of the bicycle, and they need to keep the cost down so the
optics are generally poor. The advent of higher power battery powered
lights with improved optics solved this problem, but dynamo lights
remained pretty poor until recently.

Nope, you *really* don't understand. *Or you have really poor night
vision, I am not sure which.

Are there dynamo powered lights that are equivalent to a Light &
Motion ARC HID headlight? *

Difficult to believe there's a dynamo light more powerful than the HID
headlights. It is not impossible -- nothing seems impossible in LED
lights -- but probably not just yet. To give you an idea, the best
current dynamo light, the Busch & Muller Cyo, is a good bit superior
to a Volkswagen Beetle headlight from the 6V days, about as good as an
American-legal standard car headlight on bright, about as good as a
better-quality European car light on dim, nowhere near as good as a
superior European car headlight on bright. It sacrifices something in
necessary spread to make the reach; perhaps the next generation won't
have to make the compromise. Whoever said in an earlier debate
(Bernhardt Agthe, I think) that car headlights will always beat
bicycle dynamo lights, got it right, though it gets ever closer. Your
HID lights are a car/motorcycle paradigm and thereby superior. --
Andre Jute

On 05/07/2010 23:19, Andre Jute wrote:

The Cyo, while I'm nitpicking about the best bicycle light ever made,
could also do itself a favour by throwing a spot more light above its
very straight horizon to help in spotting stop signs and other road
signs before it's too late.

As you know I've got both a Fly and a Cyo, which have the same optics.
With both I have no problem seeing road signs.

Maybe I have mine tilted slightly higher than yours? Or maybe the non-R
version has what you're asking for?

Incidentally, the argument, made here by Clive George a while ago,
that the Cyo focuses the light where you need it most, is crap. The
Cyo throws light further than you need downhill on narrow lanes at
45kph, which is already a dicey speed at night.

The faster you go the further ahead the light needs to be. I probably
have mine set to light further ahead than you, but have never felt that
it's too far.

On 05/07/10 3:55 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Jul 5, 11:29 pm, Jay wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:31 pm, Tim wrote:





In ,

wrote:
On 03/07/10 3:22 PM, James wrote:

snip

A wide beam angle has the advantage of throwing light on the
motorists waiting to pull out in front of you, one of the most
common hazards I face at night. In my particular circumstance,
seeing the road is not an issue, being seen by the motorists is.

50 degrees is a bit wide. The problem is that most bicycle dynamo
lights are _far_ too narrow. This is by design because the limited
available light needs to be focused directly on the patch of road in
front of the bicycle, and they need to keep the cost down so the
optics are generally poor. The advent of higher power battery powered
lights with improved optics solved this problem, but dynamo lights
remained pretty poor until recently.

Nope, you *really* don't understand. Or you have really poor night
vision, I am not sure which.

Are there dynamo powered lights that are equivalent to a Light&
Motion ARC HID headlight?

Difficult to believe there's a dynamo light more powerful than the HID
headlights. It is not impossible -- nothing seems impossible in LED
lights -- but probably not just yet.

It's not the LED lights that's the problem it's that there are no more
powerful dynamos. Certainly someone could build a 15W dynamo, the 12V/6W
dynamo is likely already up to around 10W.

On Jul 6, 8:16*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 5, 5:38*pm, James wrote:

As I also tried to explain, it's easy to loose a weak light against a
backdrop of brighter ones. *

Are you _sure_? *Specifically, with a practical bike headlight?

I had a Cateye LED flasher with 3 AAA cells and a few LEDs. With no
other vehicles around, it is quite bright and very easily seen. With
vehicles not far behind it pales into insignificance. Drivers see the
big bright lights, and overlook the puny flashing beacon. But, maybe
you don't see this as a practical bike headlight?

I ask because it seems you're making a statement based on your own
theory.

More observations, but yes.

*But when I've done bike lighting tests with members of my
club, with friends or with family, any "real" bike headlights have
always been judged very noticeable. *(I'm excepting the tiny coin-cell
units with one ordinary low-power LED.)

Maybe my cateye light is real then, as it has several LEDs in a
focused array.

The same has been true when motorists and pedestrians have
spontaneously complimented my lights (like one about two months ago).

They say that now about my dynamo light ;-) I've had nearly 4 weeks
of testing now, and still only one (I suspect blind drunk) driver
_started_ to pull out in front of me. Compared with 12 - 18 incidence
per week before, I'm not complaining either.

If "blinding them with glare" is such a bad thing, why are modern
vehicles equipped with more blinding low beam lights than ever before?

Why? *Marketing, based on fear, "safety" and "damn the other guy."
It's the same marketing that sells SUVs.

True, but would you pull out in front of one? Don't answer that - it
stinks of stale bait.

Seriously, you should try something less blinding, and take the
elementary step of testing it out. *Have a friend ride your bike for
you as you observe. *It's an easy thing to do, and every one of the
many times I've ridden a friend's bike to show them, their conclusion
has been "Wow, my lights are a lot more visible than I thought." *That
includes the most extreme "Safety!" campaigner of my bike club.

Well, I'm certainly not going to go back to my old cateye. The number
of near death experiences was way more excitement than I needed.
Fellow cyclists now say, "I keep thinking there's a car or motor bike
behind me when I look over my shoulder." And my light is not as
powerful as some battery lights on the market now, 1350lm I've seen
advertised (https://www.niteflux.com/Performance.aspx). And they are
a more focused beam! Mine is a very wide horizontally and flat
vertically beam. Nop, I don't think mine is too bright.

Incidentally, since SMS doesn't like the results, he claims that test
is completely invalid. *However, I'm not aware of any data showing a
proper, legally lit nighttime cyclist is at any greater risk than a
proper daytime cyclist. *If anyone has any data to the contrary, I'd
be interested.

"Proper, legally lit" is hard to define, in this country at least ...

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...s/Bicycles.htm

"Riding at night
Riding at night is illegal unless the bicycle or the rider has a white
light (flashing or steady) on the front, a red light (flashing or
steady) at the back and a red reflector at the back."

- or with more detail -
http://www.bv.com.au/bikes-&-riding/10379/
"(a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
least 200 metres from the front of the bicycle;"

Says nothing about minimum light output power or beam shape, angle,
etc.

I'm quite certain my cateye met the regulation, however the past few
weeks have made it abundantly clear that it was not sufficient.

JS.

On 05/07/10 5:22 PM, James wrote:

I'm quite certain my cateye met the regulation, however the past few
weeks have made it abundantly clear that it was not sufficient.

That's the bottom line. The minimum legal requirements keeps you from
getting a ticket, but it's far from sufficient in most areas of the country.

On Jul 6, 1:06*am, Clive George wrote:
On 05/07/2010 23:19, Andre Jute wrote:

The Cyo, while I'm nitpicking about the best bicycle light ever made,
could also do itself a favour by throwing a spot more light above its
very straight horizon to help in spotting stop signs and other road
signs before it's too late.

As you know I've got both a Fly and a Cyo,

Last I heard you had a Fly and were too cheap to buy Cyo, claiming the
Fly is as good. You still think so?

which have the same optics.
With both I have no problem seeing road signs.

You might of course have sharper eyes, and as a commuter be more
practiced. I ride at night for fun, not because I have to get home to
dinner, so my after-dark rides happen only in very nice weather.

Maybe I have mine tilted slightly higher than yours?

There's only one way to set these lights up correctly and when you
have them set up right, at say a hundred paces you will see a quite
definite line about 40in off the ground if you shine the light on a
wall. A supermarket carpark is good for this. My local Lidl has blank
white walls except for posters which conveniently start at 1m from the
ground.

Or maybe the non-R
version has what you're asking for?

Other way round. It is the R version, the one with the reflector, that
is supposed to sacrifice some of the throw for more light nearer the
bike, including coincidentally a little more sidespill. I have both
the R and the racer version (no reflector) and there really isn't much
to choose between them. Neither throws adequate sidelight near the
bike, both have too sharp a horizon to read road signs or even
sometimes to pick them up.

Incidentally, the argument, made here by Clive George a while ago,
that the Cyo focuses the light where you need it most, is crap. The
Cyo throws light further than you need downhill on narrow lanes at
45kph, which is already a dicey speed at night.

The faster you go the further ahead the light needs to be. I probably
have mine set to light further ahead than you, but have never felt that
it's too far.

Again, if you have them set up not to dazzle uncoming drivers and
riders, they have an essentially flat throw. Yours and mine throw the
same distance. How fast would you feel safe with the Cyo at night? I
think it is a faster light than I'm prepared to go on my presently
poorly surfaced lanes; maybe you can go faster and still feel
reasonably secure on the better roads where you live.

Didn't Nate, a fast driver in cars but also bespectacled, recently buy
a Cyo? What do you reckon, Nate?

Andre Jute
Well lit

On Jul 6, 1:20*am, SMS wrote:
On 05/07/10 3:55 PM, Andre Jute wrote:





On Jul 5, 11:29 pm, Jay *wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:31 pm, Tim *wrote:

In ,

* *wrote:
On 03/07/10 3:22 PM, James wrote:

snip

A wide beam angle has the advantage of throwing light on the
motorists waiting to pull out in front of you, one of the most
common hazards I face at night. *In my particular circumstance,
seeing the road is not an issue, being seen by the motorists is.

50 degrees is a bit wide. The problem is that most bicycle dynamo
lights are _far_ too narrow. This is by design because the limited
available light needs to be focused directly on the patch of road in
front of the bicycle, and they need to keep the cost down so the
optics are generally poor. The advent of higher power battery powered
lights with improved optics solved this problem, but dynamo lights
remained pretty poor until recently.

Nope, you *really* don't understand. *Or you have really poor night
vision, I am not sure which.

Are there dynamo powered lights that are equivalent to a Light&
Motion ARC HID headlight?

Difficult to believe there's a dynamo light more powerful than the HID
headlights. It is not impossible -- nothing seems impossible in LED
lights -- but probably not just yet.

It's not the LED lights that's the problem it's that there are no more
powerful dynamos. Certainly someone could build a 15W dynamo, the 12V/6W
dynamo is likely already up to around 10W.

I meant that there might still be more efficiency gains to be realized
in LEDs. LEDs have gone on the same dynamos from a glimmer to as good
as halogen to far better in only a few years; there could be further
development in there without getting more powerful dynamos. -- AJ