A different look at the helmet debate: was cycling links -

"Eric®" wrote in message
...
[...]
BTW I wear a helmet while riding trails, and while riding in traffic -
it would be stupid not to. But I don't support helmet legislation
anymore than I support knee-pad legislation, elbow-pad legislation or
face sheild legislation.

Eric Schild

And pray tell, why not. People have to be protected from their own
stupidity. That is one of many reasons why we have government in the first
place. All this blather about everyone being free to do their own thing is
the purest malarkey. Or do you assume that we all of us know everything
there is to know about insuring our own safety and that we will act upon it?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan the Controller - Minnesota

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:40:16 -0600 "Edward Dolan"
used 31 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

Sorry Ken, but I sure don't agree with you about that. People have to be
protected from their own stupidity - and that is the job of government. I
would pass laws requiring helmet use by cyclists and motorcyclists and
anyone who didn't agree with me could spend the rest of their life in jail
contemplating the error of their ways. This would have the added benefit of
keeping them off our roads and highways and thereby not incurring any health
care for their inevitable accidents.


So you're saying it's better to pay for their health care in jail?

Hey Ed, what do you think about prisoners with life sentences getting
heart transplants paid for by you and I?




--
-Graham

"What I have mostly against middle aged white liberals like you is that you do not know how to hate the proper
people." -Ed Dolan

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message ...
How many helmet studies have you actually read, Ed?

None, nor do I plan to. Why reinvent the wheel? Bike helmets are necessary
for the same reason that motorcycle helmets are necessary and for the same
reason that race car drivers also wear helmets. It protects the old noggin
in the event of an accident.

Then you oviously advocate helmets for motorists, right?

Cross-posted to:

* alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
aus.bicycle
ba.bicycles
bc.cycling
dc.biking
hr.rec.bicycles
nyc.bicycles
uk.rec.cycling

I don't read the rest, so I'll only post to the first.

"hemyd" wrote

By the way, I am very new here, and hope that you put up with my crap and
with my typos...

No problem. Just post a link now and then to people who *should* have been
wearing a helmet that day, and you'll be fine.

http://usethebomb.com/Secret/images/..._two_cars.mpeg

"MasterBlaster" wrote in message
news:b5dqd.195371$df2.33620@edtnps89...
Cross-posted to:

* alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
aus.bicycle
ba.bicycles
bc.cycling
dc.biking
hr.rec.bicycles
nyc.bicycles
uk.rec.cycling

I don't read the rest, so I'll only post to the first.

"hemyd" wrote

By the way, I am very new here, and hope that you put up with my crap
and
with my typos...

No problem. Just post a link now and then to people who *should* have been
wearing a helmet that day, and you'll be fine.

http://usethebomb.com/Secret/images/..._two_cars.mpeg


Somehow I doubt THAT guy would have been helped by a helmet

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:40:16 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

...Everyone should
be free to decide to wear one or not to for themselves. I DON'T
BELIEVE THAT THE STATE SHOULD PASS HELMET LAWS FOR CYCLISTS (EVEN
THOSE THAT RIDE HARLEY DAVISONS). We should keep the state our of our
lives as much as possible.

Sorry Ken, but I sure don't agree with you about that. People have to be
protected from their own stupidity - and that is the job of government. I
would pass laws requiring helmet use by cyclists and motorcyclists and
anyone who didn't agree with me could spend the rest of their life in jail
contemplating the error of their ways.

Interestingly, both Australia and New Zealand passed laws requiring
all cyclists to wear helmets and it made precisely no measurable
difference to head injury rates, which is not a surprise because
helmets are not designed to prevent serious injuries.

In fact, after an extensive review, the British government was unable
to find a single jurisdiction where cyclist safety had improved with
increasing helmet use, although there were plenty where it had got
worse.

Which tends to suggest that your base premise is wrong.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:51:46 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

Here is a simple fact for you: helmets are not designed for, and have
no proven efficacy in, impacts with motor vehicles. Neither the
manufacturers nor the standards support the idea. Honestly.

So then, the only reason not to be wearing a helmet is in the event you
impact a motor vehicle.

No, there are lots of reasons to wear or not to wear a helmet. The
major reason advanced by helmet proponents, especially compulsionists,
is the prevention of serious injuries, among which road traffic
injuries dominate. There is no credible evidence to suggest that
helmets have any measurable effect on serious injuries, whether
involving motor vehicles or not.

However, considering there are a thousand and one
other ways you can hurt your noggin riding a bike, I guess will continue to
wear a helmet despite your very profound ignorance on these matters.

I have a suspicion it is you who are ignorant. Which figure for
efficacy do you believe, and from what source? I almost certainly
have the original source in my database and if I don't I will be able
to get it probably within 48 hours, so I'd be happy to debate the
detail. Which figure? There are plenty to choose from, ranging from
-40% to +186%.

Helmets probably prevent a large proportion of trivial injuries, but I
know of no credible evidence that they prevent serious injuries or
death. ...

Surely the dumbest thing ever written. The reason Guy Chapman does not wear
a helmet is because he does not want to muss his hair.

When you've quite finished missing the point, here it is again: I
know of no credible evidence that they prevent serious injuries or
death. And I have looked. So which study do you think provides the
missing evidence? Cite it please.

Oh, and you are also making a fundamental error in your base
assumption regarding my helmet use. Hardly a surprise, it's much
easier to fight straw men than the real thing.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:37:44 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

I do not care if you and Guy want to get yourselves killed because you do
not want to wear helmets. But I do object most strongly to having to bear
the expense of your health care if and when you have an accident because you
were not wearing a helmet.

So which study do you think shows that helmets prevent death or
serious brain injury? Cite it. The manufacturers would love to see
it, they don't think helmets do that.

You also need to read Curnow on the mechanisms of brain injury.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Mark Leuck" wrote

No problem. Just post a link now and then to people who *should* have been
wearing a helmet that day, and you'll be fine.

http://usethebomb.com/Secret/images/..._two_cars.mpeg


Somehow I doubt THAT guy would have been helped by a helmet


Yeah, but it would have been more convincing if his left leg hadn't already
started sliding backwards when the van was still 4 feet away.

Now, as long as nobody points out that the explosion was about 3 inches
off center in the doggy vid.....

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:00:26 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

I wear a helmet even when I go to bed at night. I have been known to
fall out of my bed in my sleep and I would not want to do that and land on
my head.

Very wise. Falling out of bed, and particularly falling down stairs,
are massively more likely to cause a head injury of the type helmets
are designed to prevent. Walking is right up there with them.
Cycling is off the radar as a cause of this kind of injury.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University