rear hub suggestions for Cannondale touring bike?

chump- A ball bearing is an inner race, and outer race and a complement of
balls. Are you suggesting that Shimano hubs allow you to replace all
these things? BRBR

No a ball bearing is a ...ball bearing...the other stuff are cones and cups.
You said-" Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, BRBR

They have replaceable bearings, not cups, replaceable cones.

Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with
non-replaceable chainrings-- BRBR

'Outer races' are called 'cones' and these are replaceable also...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

They have replaceable bearings, not cups, replaceable cones.

Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with
non-replaceable chainrings-- BRBR

'Outer races' are called 'cones' and these are replaceable also...

"Outer" bearing races are the ones which are larger in diameter. They
are part of the bearing. On Shimano hubs, they can't be replaced.
Unless you replace both races of a bearing, you haven't replaced the
bearing now, have you? It's like deciding that your shoes are
uncomfortable and just changing the left one.

I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed.

I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
it.

Chalo Colina

I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed.

I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
it.

Get over yourself, Chumpy. Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even a
badly damaged race and cone will go for many, many miles. And even the worst
case-a broken axle-isn't so bad on a bike because the axles are clamped at both
ends. Any bike machanic has stories about removing a wheel that turned fine
only to have the axle come apart when he did. And if you demand completely
replaceable cup and cone bearings Campy is for you.
Phil Brown

"Chalo" wrote in message
. ..
(Phil Brown) wrote:

That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear
issue in a hub, and Shimano's hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that
issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole wheel a
finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing
lasts forever.

I guess the real question is what the service life of a typical Shimano outer
race actually is. I have not failed one yet, but then I've only reached
perhaps a few 10's of thousands of miles on my highest mileage hubs. Wheel
rims are generally more expensive than hubs (at least when you use the typical
Shimano/Mavic combo). We all accept the finite life of rims, which seems to be
far shorter than the finite life of Shimano hubs. What's the big deal?

Anybody have any anecdotal reports of Shimano hub failures/mileage?

A hole poked in a solid wooden hub will go for many miles, too. But
ball bearings are there for a reason, and other machines that are
designed to be repaired use bearings that can be replaced.

Shimano could just as easily do the same, but instead they opt for
disposability without the cost savings usually associated therewith.

Shimano is doing something to lower costs. I recently bought a *set* of wheels
with LX hubs (very nice hubs), CR18 rims and DT spokes for $75. I'm not
expecting to pass those hubs down to my grandchildren. How many miles/years do
I need to get before I've gotten my money's worth? Even at the typical
Ultegra/OpenPro road wheelset price point (~$200), serviceability starts
becoming a non-issue in that it's just cheaper to buy a whole new wheel or
set. Most high-end wheels are sold to creatures of fashion, who have a much
shorter style half-life, so durability/serviceability isn't an issue either.
That leaves a very small segment who would actually want to ride more than a
few 10K miles on a hub.

chump- "Outer" bearing races are the ones which are larger in diameter. They
are part of the bearing. BRBR

Holy Semantics batman!!!

Like a gun 'cartridge', which includes the primer, powder, case and projectile,
a cartridge bearing has all the 'stuff', bearings, races, in a unit. In guns, a
muzzle loader doesn't use a 'cartridge', but a 'rifle ball', like shimano hubs
use ball bearings.

I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed. BRBR

What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Peter Chisholm asked:

What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Welllll, a couple of years ago I visited Kill Devil Hill, N.C. where=20
they have a replica of the Wright Flyer. It turned out to contain quite =

a few bicycle parts, not at all to my surprise.

The "landing gear" (actually take-off gear, it used a row of edgewise=20
2x4s as a take-off rail) was a couple of old-timey looking front bicycle =

hubs. The flange spacing of the hubs was a good fit for the 2 x 4s.

I have no doubt that these hubs used loose balls...

Sheldon "Centennial's Comin'!" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The secrets of flight will not be mastered within our lifetime=85 |
| =85not within a thousand years =96Wilbur Wright, 1901 |=

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Chalo Colina thinks Shimano hubs are bad 'cause the cups are not
replaceable:

That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear
issue in a hub, and Shimano's hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that
issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole wheel a
finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing
lasts forever.

Chalo, I gotta say this is a bum rap, and that singling out Shimano this
way is unreasonable and unfair.

Leaving cartridge bearing hubs out of the discussion, traditional
cup-and-cone hubs have always had non-replaceable cups, with the
exception of Campagnolo.

This is very rarely a problem for hubs given reasonable maintenance,
because cones wear out LONG before cups do. Not only does the cone have
a much smaller active surface are than the cup, the cup bears all of the
load on one side, while the cup is in constant revolution, so the stress
is shared all the way around its circumference.

In all my years of wrenching, I think I may once have replaced a cup in
a hub. In practice they are virtually immortal unless maintenance is
neglected or they're ridden while misadjusted.

Shimano hubs are far and away the best value available. Nothing even a
little better is available for less than 4 times the price.

Sheldon "Phils Are Nice" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Happy Moon Landing Day to all! None of us should |
| be working today--we should all be celebrating the |
| most important event of the last millennium! |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Bingo!

Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work
properly every time they fly. No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone
for that. Yet those are qualities I like in my bike too.

Chalo

"Chalo" I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a
bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed.

I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
it.


"Phil Brown" wrote in message
...
Get over yourself, Chumpy. Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even
a
badly damaged race and cone will go for many, many miles. And even the
worst
case-a broken axle-isn't so bad on a bike because the axles are clamped at
both
ends. Any bike machanic has stories about removing a wheel that turned
fine
only to have the axle come apart when he did. And if you demand completely
replaceable cup and cone bearings Campy is for you.

I believe Chalo is advocating hubs such as the Campagnolo Veloce, Phil Wood
and the cool SunRace JuJu which use readily available cartridge bearing
assemblies.
I like my traditional hubs but you have to admit that a cartridge bearing
type hub is logically better for service by your average guy because the
entire bearing system gets replaced with little suffering, there's no
subjective adjustment and they are dirt cheap everywhere.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Bingo!

Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work
properly every time they fly. No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone
for that. Yet those are qualities I like in my bike too.

Well, Chumpy, there are plenty of sealed cartiridge bearing hubs for you to
choose from. Of course you'll have to accept the seal drag that comes with them
which isn't present on a cup and cone but maybe you're just a big strong guy
and just overpower it. And last time I looked Paul MacReady used cup and cone
bearings and he (with a little help) won The Kremer Prize.
Phil Brown