Waxing Chains?

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 5:55:21 AM UTC-8, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
your planet is wetter than ours ....clean n relub with GoldBond at 1500 miles is disastrous both in wear n energy expenditure...we would epect loss of 2 gears at 500 miles with synthetics not wax. I doahn believe wax gets past 100 miles.

Do you hear it squeak? When u think the wax is gone?

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 5:49:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 21/11/16 11:51, John B Slocomb wrote:

Does anyone have any statistics regarding the length of time paraffin
wax lasts as a chain lubricant? Either in miles/kilometers ridden,
days/months between lube jobs, or other statistics?

When I used to use wax I used to re-wax probably every two weeks or so
but wonder whether a more relaxed schedule might be sufficient?


I think it is pointless for different people to compare chain re-lubing
as a time based maintenance operation. While one person rides 500km
weekly, another might take a month to complete the same distance. The
wax doesn't fall off without the bike being used, so hours of use or
distance travelled is a far more appropriate yardstick.

Rain and other environmental conditions (e.g. dust) will affect chain
maintenance.

I live in a relatively dry and clean riding environment, though I
sometimes ride on dirt roads.

I haven't taken time to record when I perform maintenance on my chain
recently, but I know I spend less time and effort than I used to when I
used all wet lubricants.

My wax is a mixture of candle wax, gear oil and a blob of moly grease,
for good measure. It starts to soften at 30-40 degrees C.

At the moment I guess I ride 2-3000km between re-waxing. After a 1000km
or so the chain might start to sound a little dry. I find a very
sparing squirt of WD40 and wipe off the excess keeps the chain running
silently for another 1000km. My guess is that the WD40 softens the
remaining wax and turns it into grease and oil for a while.

I rode 100km yesterday after a little squirt of WD40. The chain ran
silent and smooth, but it's been a few months between re-waxing and
chain swapping, so I'll do that very soon.

Is this not going to accelerate wear by carrying grit down into the chain?

bah kick Allen duh ....'due to its detergent properties' as oil is a solvent useful in cleaning for example everyone knows oil is used for cleaning Austin Healy SU carb barrels. Oil produces flow in wax. Pedros maybe using oil in 2.0.

but good collection. the main attribute is wax having collected dirt then falls off. now this appeals to js as the dirt fell off leaving a very thin wax skim.

OK but the prob is uno...the skim does not afford an impact cushioning (opinion) only a solid not lubing platform n dos the efficiency as a lube ceases when the stuff falls off. Too short a range for a road bike.

A time*distance/energy curve is steel after fall off. Look n see.

On 21/11/16 23:21, John B Slocomb wrote:


Re "hot waxing". I have a tube of commercial "wax" chain lube that
seems to be, based on warnings of "highly inflammable" some sort of
wax-highly volatile solvent mix. I have a faint recollection of
someone mixing paraffin with gasoline at elevated temperatures for
some purpose, not that I want to attempt that feat :-) but I wonder if
paraffin is soluble in some sort of volatile liquid. It might be a
means of formulating an emergency (carry some with you) chain lube.


It does dissolve in very light hydrocarbon fractions.

--
JS

On 22/11/16 04:46, Doug Landau wrote:
On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 5:49:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 21/11/16 11:51, John B Slocomb wrote:

Does anyone have any statistics regarding the length of time paraffin
wax lasts as a chain lubricant? Either in miles/kilometers ridden,
days/months between lube jobs, or other statistics?

When I used to use wax I used to re-wax probably every two weeks or so
but wonder whether a more relaxed schedule might be sufficient?


I think it is pointless for different people to compare chain re-lubing
as a time based maintenance operation. While one person rides 500km
weekly, another might take a month to complete the same distance. The
wax doesn't fall off without the bike being used, so hours of use or
distance travelled is a far more appropriate yardstick.

Rain and other environmental conditions (e.g. dust) will affect chain
maintenance.

I live in a relatively dry and clean riding environment, though I
sometimes ride on dirt roads.

I haven't taken time to record when I perform maintenance on my chain
recently, but I know I spend less time and effort than I used to when I
used all wet lubricants.

My wax is a mixture of candle wax, gear oil and a blob of moly grease,
for good measure. It starts to soften at 30-40 degrees C.

At the moment I guess I ride 2-3000km between re-waxing. After a 1000km
or so the chain might start to sound a little dry. I find a very
sparing squirt of WD40 and wipe off the excess keeps the chain running
silently for another 1000km. My guess is that the WD40 softens the
remaining wax and turns it into grease and oil for a while.

I rode 100km yesterday after a little squirt of WD40. The chain ran
silent and smooth, but it's been a few months between re-waxing and
chain swapping, so I'll do that very soon.

Is this not going to accelerate wear by carrying grit down into the chain?



Maybe, maybe not. Depends how clean or dirty the rollers of the chain
are I guess. Mine stay very clean.

--
JS

On 11/21/2016 11:34 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:51 PM, John B Slocomb wrote:

Does anyone have any statistics regarding the length of time paraffin
wax lasts as a chain lubricant? Either in miles/kilometers ridden,
days/months between lube jobs, or other statistics?

When I used to use wax I used to re-wax probably every two weeks or so
but wonder whether a more relaxed schedule might be sufficient?

You can't go by time _or_ mileage, there are other factors as well.
What's the weather? Are you mixing oil in with the wax so there is a
lubricant still present once the wax is displaced?

It's as "logical" to say it's impossible for a person to tell which
jacket to wear. It could be cold; it could be hot; the temperature
might rise or fall; it may be breezy; it may be sunny; it may be cloudy.

Nothing can be determined! All is mystery! Ommmmmmmmm....



What the Experts say About Chain Waxing:

"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.

"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel

"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.

"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown

"Paraffin (canning wax), although clean, works poorly because it is not
mobile and cannot replenish the bearing surfaces once it has been
displaced. This becomes apparent with any water that gets on the chain.
It immediately squeaks.

[I have found that motor oil works poorly: it washes out of the chain
due to its detergent properties -- John Allen.]"

Of course Jon Allen is clueless, and it hurts to see him wrecking
Sheldon's web site. You don't use detergent oil on a chain, if you are
going to use motor oil then you use non-detergent oil, i.e.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0052KYAMC

You could go with opinions, or you could go with data and the experience
of those who have actually used a wax-oil mix.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/new...formula-36424/

http://www.velonews.com/2013/03/bike...ith-wax_279148

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/...b1044b34_c.jpg

About John Allen: He's a very smart guy. But like most smart guys, his
opinions are sometimes incomplete, and sometimes just wrong.

In this case, his statement is incomplete. I'll agree (based on
experience) that pure paraffin wax squeaks quite soon after a rain. But
in my experience, the addition of a small amount of oil (perhaps gear
oil) to the wax removes that detriment completely, while still leaving
the considerable benefits of a wax lube. To prepare the mix, melt the
wax, pour in maybe 5% oil and stir.

As usual, I'm not trying to tell anybody what they should use on their
chains. I'm just trying to counter Steven M. Scharf's usual misinformation.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/21/2016 3:58 PM, James wrote:
On 22/11/16 04:46, Doug Landau wrote:
On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 5:49:13 PM UTC-8, James wrote:


At the moment I guess I ride 2-3000km between re-waxing. After a 1000km
or so the chain might start to sound a little dry. I find a very
sparing squirt of WD40 and wipe off the excess keeps the chain running
silently for another 1000km. My guess is that the WD40 softens the
remaining wax and turns it into grease and oil for a while.

I rode 100km yesterday after a little squirt of WD40. The chain ran
silent and smooth, but it's been a few months between re-waxing and
chain swapping, so I'll do that very soon.

Is this not going to accelerate wear by carrying grit down into the
chain?

Maybe, maybe not. Depends how clean or dirty the rollers of the chain
are I guess. Mine stay very clean.

Somewhat similarly, when I re-wax (with the chain on the bike, using
torch heat) I don't do much to clean the chain first; maybe just wipe it
down with paper towels, but often not even that.

I'm sure the new wax, when it melts, carries some microscopic grit into
the chain's crevices. I'm not worried about that slight deviation from
perfection. My bike, chain, chainrings and cogs still stay much cleaner
than with any other lube, my chain life seems longer (it's plenty long
enough to satisfy me), and the application process is faster than any
"bathe & oil" routine.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 4:51:25 PM UTC-8, John B Slocomb wrote:
Does anyone have any statistics regarding the length of time paraffin
wax lasts as a chain lubricant? Either in miles/kilometers ridden,
days/months between lube jobs, or other statistics?

When I used to use wax I used to re-wax probably every two weeks or so
but wonder whether a more relaxed schedule might be sufficient?

I have used wax and liked it. But merely because it keeps the chain and drive train clean. The chain wears rapidly and that wears the cassette and rings out too.

The best results I've had are to leave the initial chain lubricant from the manufacturer on the chain without anything else until it starts hardening and building up black residue on the cassette and chain. Then totally clean the chain off using a strong cleaner such as Simple Green, allow the chain to dry completely in the sun, install it and use Rock N Roll. This needs to be re-lubed every couple of weeks as the chain starts appearing dry until it is too dirty to stand and then start over with the cleaner.

John B Slocomb considered Mon, 21 Nov 2016
07:51:16 +0700 the perfect time to write:


Does anyone have any statistics regarding the length of time paraffin
wax lasts as a chain lubricant? Either in miles/kilometers ridden,
days/months between lube jobs, or other statistics?

When I used to use wax I used to re-wax probably every two weeks or so
but wonder whether a more relaxed schedule might be sufficient?

It is so dependent on riding environment that such figures are
effectively meaningless.
What works perfectly well in dry weather on a well surfaced road with
a short cage derailer on a 23-622 tyred bike would destroy a chain
very quickly if applied to a wet or gritty mountain bike trail on a
long cage derailer on 42-559 tyres (which puts the chain much closer
to the ground).

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:51:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 21/11/16 23:21, John B Slocomb wrote:


Re "hot waxing". I have a tube of commercial "wax" chain lube that
seems to be, based on warnings of "highly inflammable" some sort of
wax-highly volatile solvent mix. I have a faint recollection of
someone mixing paraffin with gasoline at elevated temperatures for
some purpose, not that I want to attempt that feat :-) but I wonder if
paraffin is soluble in some sort of volatile liquid. It might be a
means of formulating an emergency (carry some with you) chain lube.


It does dissolve in very light hydrocarbon fractions.

At ambient temperatures? I've been trying to recollect the details of
the story I remembered about the paraffin and gasoline, but I seem to
remember that cooking it over a fire was a part of the recipe... which
didn't sound like something I wanted to try out in the driveway :-)