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Why dont they compete in the final stage??



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 30th 07, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 5
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Jul 29, 7:24 am, RonSonic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:39:40 -0700, wrote:
These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.


They do not respect a custom or tradition, they respect the other riders and
their teams. You can attack but all it will do is **** everyone off after they
chase you down. If the wind and terrain make a break possible, someone will take
it, but usually that doesn't happen.

Ron


I guess I dont really understand the sport. If it was a game of tennis
where it was all about skill I could understand that if someone beat
you for the past 19 games there would be little point to try to win on
the 20th try, but this is more an endurance sport. The lead guy could
be totally drained by the last stage so you should at least test him.

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  #12  
Old July 30th 07, 09:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ewoud Dronkert
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Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

wrote:
The lead guy could
be totally drained by the last stage so you should at least test him.


It's a team sport.


--
E. Dronkert
  #13  
Old July 30th 07, 09:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Kurgan Gringioni
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Posts: 1,796
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Jul 28, 10:39 pm, wrote:
These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.





Dear Newbie -


Please go away.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

  #14  
Old July 30th 07, 11:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mango
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Posts: 5
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??


wrote in message
oups.com...
These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.


If you are a good enough sprinter then you will. However none of the top
three can match it with the sprinters. Evans only chance would have been a
serious crash that prevented Contador from finishing. He could never have
gotten a break on the field. Its not only tradition that limits attacks on
the final day. Its the practicality that an attack has virtually no chance
of success.


  #15  
Old July 30th 07, 12:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 40
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Jul 30, 4:12 am, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
On Jul 28, 10:39 pm, wrote:

These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.


Dear Newbie -

Please go away.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.


I thought it a very reasonable question which sparked some debate and
some solid answers.

I imagine you just had a bad day and wanted to restore a battered ego
by making such a "butch" remark.

  #16  
Old July 30th 07, 01:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
RonSonic
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Posts: 2,658
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:05:21 -0700, wrote:

On Jul 29, 7:24 am, RonSonic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:39:40 -0700, wrote:
These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.


They do not respect a custom or tradition, they respect the other riders and
their teams. You can attack but all it will do is **** everyone off after they
chase you down. If the wind and terrain make a break possible, someone will take
it, but usually that doesn't happen.

Ron


I guess I dont really understand the sport. If it was a game of tennis
where it was all about skill I could understand that if someone beat
you for the past 19 games there would be little point to try to win on
the 20th try, but this is more an endurance sport. The lead guy could
be totally drained by the last stage so you should at least test him.


The single most important fact of bike racing is aerodynamic drag. The man in
second place has the advantage and at the least can ride in the slipstream of
the rider in front. What this means tactically is that on a relatively flat
stage without a strong sidewind you cannot ride away from your opponent unless
you are vastly stronger than he and his team or he let's you go.

With a jersey at stake nobody will let you ride away. And nobody, or more
importantly, no team is so much stronger than another that anyone can just ride
the competition off his wheel on the flat.

The last stage in particular no rider even if he's three hours down on GC will
get away without the sprinter's teams running him down and if the guy's a GC
threat then the leader's team will bring him back. And if you think you are so
much stronger than the other 150 guys that you can stomp on them like that, they
will make a particular point of proving otherwise.

But, like I said sometimes the terrain or conditions make it possible to make a
selection. By design, this rarely occurs on the final stage, the promoter wants
the big screaming gang to all blast into Paris together.

Ron
  #17  
Old July 30th 07, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 5
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Jul 30, 5:42 am, RonSonic wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:05:21 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 29, 7:24 am, RonSonic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:39:40 -0700, wrote:
These guys sacrifice their health to win taking drugs and doing
anything else to cheat so why do they respect the custom of not
competing on final stage? Lets say you are in second by a few seconds
and know you can win the final stage. Do you really give up even the
stage win? I just dont get it.


They do not respect a custom or tradition, they respect the other riders and
their teams. You can attack but all it will do is **** everyone off after they
chase you down. If the wind and terrain make a break possible, someone will take
it, but usually that doesn't happen.


Ron


I guess I dont really understand the sport. If it was a game of tennis
where it was all about skill I could understand that if someone beat
you for the past 19 games there would be little point to try to win on
the 20th try, but this is more an endurance sport. The lead guy could
be totally drained by the last stage so you should at least test him.


The single most important fact of bike racing is aerodynamic drag. The man in
second place has the advantage and at the least can ride in the slipstream of
the rider in front. What this means tactically is that on a relatively flat
stage without a strong sidewind you cannot ride away from your opponent unless
you are vastly stronger than he and his team or he let's you go.

With a jersey at stake nobody will let you ride away. And nobody, or more
importantly, no team is so much stronger than another that anyone can just ride
the competition off his wheel on the flat.

The last stage in particular no rider even if he's three hours down on GC will
get away without the sprinter's teams running him down and if the guy's a GC
threat then the leader's team will bring him back. And if you think you are so
much stronger than the other 150 guys that you can stomp on them like that, they
will make a particular point of proving otherwise.

But, like I said sometimes the terrain or conditions make it possible to make a
selection. By design, this rarely occurs on the final stage, the promoter wants
the big screaming gang to all blast into Paris together.

Ron- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Cool. Thanks for the education.

  #18  
Old July 30th 07, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:42:29 -0400, RonSonic
wrote:

The last stage in particular no rider even if he's three hours down on GC will
get away without the sprinter's teams running him down and if the guy's a GC
threat then the leader's team will bring him back.


Everything you say is true about the difficulty of an escape on the
last stage, but it has been done in the last decade or two. Jeff
Pierce won the stage from a break, as did (I think) Eddy Seigneur
(sp).

The last time a GC contendor got a little gap was last year or the
year before by Vinokourov, but really that was a long sprint. The
last read "break" that I can think of by a GC rider was 20-25 years
ago by Hinault and Zootemelk, though that did not change GC since they
were in first and second anyway.
--
JT
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  #19  
Old July 31st 07, 12:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 2,383
Default Why dont they compete in the final stage??

In article ,
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:42:29 -0400, RonSonic
wrote:

The last stage in particular no rider even if he's three hours down on GC
will
get away without the sprinter's teams running him down and if the guy's a GC
threat then the leader's team will bring him back.


Everything you say is true about the difficulty of an escape on the
last stage, but it has been done in the last decade or two. Jeff
Pierce won the stage from a break, as did (I think) Eddy Seigneur
(sp).

The last time a GC contendor got a little gap was last year or the
year before by Vinokourov, but really that was a long sprint. The
last read "break" that I can think of by a GC rider was 20-25 years
ago by Hinault and Zootemelk, though that did not change GC since they
were in first and second anyway.


It should be said that I have always understood the tradition as "it's a
parade until the Champs Elysee."

They do, what, 8 laps of that, making up the last 22 km or so of an
already short stage (130 k this year).

I think the best formulation was someone who, answering the question of
what would happen to a rider who tried a breakaway before then, said the
entire peloton would chase down the offender, and then they'd pelt him
with their water bottles.

Again, I have no doubt that the bets would be off on a day when there
was something that could be meaningfully contested. The "truce" is
really more about the idea that GC no-hopers aren't going to be allowed
to go and do their usual 10-minutes ahead thing. The reason seems to be
a combination of letting the peloton relax and have an easy and
celebratory ride in, and it probably makes for a better spectacle to
have the whole pack ride onto the Champs at once, and let 'er rip for
the last 20 km.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 




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