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#111
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 4:23:58 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 05:40:22 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Another shop was selling Wheelsmith spokes, and nipples for $0.96 each in sets of 50. Or DT Swiss Champion spokes for $0.72 each in sets of 70. Or Bavel 36pcs Steel Spokes Mountain Bike Spokes MTB 251mm-268mm W/Nipples in sets of 36 for $9.99. Try standard road lengths of 280mm with DT/Sapim/Wheelsmith double butted 2.0/1.8. Most come with no nipples, and when you add those and shipping, you're approaching a buck a spoke. Spokes used to be an incidental expense but not anymore. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#112
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/14/2019 11:59 AM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 4:36 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J." wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US) each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point. If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop. Mark J. I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-( But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for $10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from $11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten bucks is chicken feed. For high-end Treks, sure. For functional recycled utility bikes that will be sold on a sliding scale or given away, not so much. The shop is sitting on a bunch of new donated rims, and it harvests hubs, many decent ones, from otherwise dead donated wheels. My goal is to turn those resources into working wheels through donated labor. Put it all together, and it's marginally competitive with complete wholesale wheels due to the cost of spokes. (And it's a fair question whether wheel building is an efficient use of donated skilled time.) My conjecture is that the rise of the boxed-wheels market has raised the price of spokes dramatically, as spokes' drop in wholesale/retail volume requires a much higher price to be worth stocking. I remember getting basic but name-brand spokes for 20 cents each, now it's closer to a dollar. Andy M., did I guess right about the market? Mark J. I don't know. We gave up on domestic premium spoke support[1] and just import them ourselves so I'm not in the market here much except for unusual items. Premium 18/8 butted NJS cert spokes are $30/set here with DT Swiss nipples. Your average replacement wheel[2] runs $40 to $60 but almost all with UCP SG spokes. [1]unreliable/slow delivery. Faster from Osaka than from Milwaukee or Olney. [2]assembled in USA from imported components -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#113
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The death of rim brakes?
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I think that is acceptable because ... nature. I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) There was something similar I read a little while back, about a Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral pigs. Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral pigs, where he is from. Some city greens got all up tight about it and proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of their own somewhere. I think they were being serious. Made it all the more laughable. -- JS |
#114
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/14/2019 4:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I think that is acceptable because ... nature. I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) There was something similar I read a little while back, about a Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral pigs.Â* Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral pigs, where he is from.Â* Some city greens got all up tight about it and proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of their own somewhere.Â* I think they were being serious.Â* Made it all the more laughable. Around here it's the extreme White Tailed Deer population. They are harming many other species in the forests by eating the entire understory. There are people who want to give them contraceptives instead of shooting them. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#115
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/14/2019 3:39 PM, James wrote:
On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I think that is acceptable because ... nature. I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) There was something similar I read a little while back, about a Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral pigs. Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral pigs, where he is from. Some city greens got all up tight about it and proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of their own somewhere. I think they were being serious. Made it all the more laughable. This is why we can't have satire now. Our government in its wisdom is airdropping immigrant (Canadian) wolves into Isle Royale National Park to decrease the overpopulated elk/moose. Suggestions for a high-ticket hunt were rejected despite great interest. Being eaten alive by wolves is so much more humane... -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#117
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 12:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/14/2019 3:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:54:41 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) Probably the same thing they think when their dog or cat gets attacked by a coyote, coydog or hawk. I'm actually hoping for something to take the tiny yappy dog next door. The neighbors are lovely people except for a total inability to understand how much their dog irritates others, especially after 11:30 PM or before 7:30 AM. The dog barks whenever it sees something interesting. But it is interested in everything. And the bark is piercing. Another neighbor says he can no longer sleep with his windows open. It's a tiny Yorkie. A cougar or coyote would be overkill. A Great Horned Owl would do nicely. Sue the neighbor for loss of sleep. You might even collect enough to buy a new bicycle :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#118
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:59:33 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote: On 3/13/2019 4:36 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J." wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US) each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point. If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop. Mark J. I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-( But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for $10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from $11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten bucks is chicken feed. For high-end Treks, sure. For functional recycled utility bikes that will be sold on a sliding scale or given away, not so much. I suggest that if Trek is selling them there are a sufficient number of folks that are buying them :-) The shop is sitting on a bunch of new donated rims, and it harvests hubs, many decent ones, from otherwise dead donated wheels. My goal is to turn those resources into working wheels through donated labor. Put it all together, and it's marginally competitive with complete wholesale wheels due to the cost of spokes. (And it's a fair question whether wheel building is an efficient use of donated skilled time.) My conjecture is that the rise of the boxed-wheels market has raised the price of spokes dramatically, as spokes' drop in wholesale/retail volume requires a much higher price to be worth stocking. I remember getting basic but name-brand spokes for 20 cents each, now it's closer to a dollar. Very possible true. The Shimano wholesaler in Bangkok tells me that they no longer stock rims, hubs or spokes as "nobody buys them anymore". Andy M., did I guess right about the market? Mark J. -- Cheers, John B. |
#119
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:07:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:59:35 PM UTC-4, Mark J. wrote: On 3/13/2019 4:36 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J." wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US) each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point. If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop. Mark J. I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-( But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for $10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from $11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten bucks is chicken feed. For high-end Treks, sure. For functional recycled utility bikes that will be sold on a sliding scale or given away, not so much. The shop is sitting on a bunch of new donated rims, and it harvests hubs, many decent ones, from otherwise dead donated wheels. My goal is to turn those resources into working wheels through donated labor. Put it all together, and it's marginally competitive with complete wholesale wheels due to the cost of spokes. (And it's a fair question whether wheel building is an efficient use of donated skilled time.) My conjecture is that the rise of the boxed-wheels market has raised the price of spokes dramatically, as spokes' drop in wholesale/retail volume requires a much higher price to be worth stocking. I remember getting basic but name-brand spokes for 20 cents each, now it's closer to a dollar. Andy M., did I guess right about the market? Mark J. Where I am the bicycle shops don't stock different lengths of spokes. They cut and thread spokes to the length you want. Those spokes are a little over a dollar a piece Canadian. SO a 36 spoke wheel is at least $36.00 for new spokes. Add in the cost of a new rim and you can get a reasonable quality Alex rim wheel. That further lessens the demand for spokes. It's a vicious downward spiral. Cheers Two or three years ago I popped a couple of spokes in my rear wheel and didn't have any new spokes so went down to my local bike shop and bought a set of brand new Shimano wheels. For which I paid something like $50. I'm still using the wheels today and they still run true. Why in the world would anyone want to go to all the trouble of building a set of wheels :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#120
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The death of rim brakes?
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:39:01 +1100, James
wrote: On 14/3/19 3:54 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I think that is acceptable because ... nature. I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) There was something similar I read a little while back, about a Queensland politician who was photographed next to a pile of dead feral pigs. Apparently it is an annual event, to go shoot a heap of feral pigs, where he is from. Some city greens got all up tight about it and proposed that the pigs should be rounded up and sent to a pasture of their own somewhere. I think they were being serious. Made it all the more laughable. My usual argument for the more obnoxious Environmental is to ask something like "Oh! Will you take a pair of wild pigs at your house". Their usual response, "Oh! The government's got to do that" to which I reply, "Are you willing to pay more in taxes to take care of the pigs?" The point is that most, if not all, of the devoted are not willing to actually do anything about what they are ranting and waving their arms about. -- Cheers, John B. |
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