|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time.. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. -- Jay Beattie. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 3:32:53 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King.. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. -- Jay Beattie. I think that the Chinese are absolutely flooding the marketplace with high end bikes for low end prices. Nashbar was advertising a disk brake carbon with a 105 group for $999. Why should someone buy a used bike no matter how good for more money? Why should someone buy a high end carbon bike for last years high end prices? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today. It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights. -- Jay Beattie. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today. It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights. -- Jay Beattie. I sincerely just don't get it. Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped? https://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-..._&dpSrc=detail Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not a bicycle. If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates than an electric thingy. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 20:14:43 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today. It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights. -- Jay Beattie. I sincerely just don't get it. Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped? https://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-..._&dpSrc=detail Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not a bicycle. If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates than an electric thingy. Perhaps the Whizzer will make a comeback :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On 9/22/2017 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King.* He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August.* It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up.* It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular.* Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night.* I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack.* As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes.* I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today. It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights. -- Jay Beattie. I sincerely just don't get it. Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped? You can ride a e-bike on bicycle multi-use paths. Mopeds aren't allowed. Even when motorized bicycles aren't allowed, a lot of them are not obvious enough for anyone to complain, and since on the "pedal assist" models you have to be pedaling, there's some legal distinction in some states. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 3:14:48 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: Photos with text at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing Interbike is in a Death Spiral E-Bikes Lights Cleaning and Lubrication Bamboo Cameras Power Meters Smart Helmets Folding Bikes Locks WIKE Salamander Pure Cycles Rod Brakes Are Back! Tent What I Won What I bought I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time. BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market. The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else? I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was "good looking," or "好看." Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack.. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight. Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's more recreational. It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today. It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights.. -- Jay Beattie. I sincerely just don't get it. Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped? 1 out of 3 sold bikes here in the Netherlands is a E bike and sales going up every year. The majority electric assisted (up to 25 km/hr). The people aren't 'ashamed' anymore and they really look like a normal bike. We have a discussion now because more deadly accidents happened the last year due to accidents involving E bikes. Older people can't handle the speed and that heavy bike. Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not a bicycle. We don't carry bikes upstairs. If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates than an electric thingy. You are missing the point Andrew. If you had a utility bike shop here you would go out of business if you didn't offer E bikes. Lou |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Interbike 2017
On 9/22/2017 8:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I sincerely just don't get it. Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped? https://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-..._&dpSrc=detail Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not a bicycle. If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates than an electric thingy. Short version: 1. The China scooters are 1/5th the price of the Japanese stuff, but they suffer a lot of reliability issues and have no dealer support. 2. Normal motorcycle shops won't work on them, for various reasons, so when the thing breaks you will probably have to fix it yourself. That is--IF you can find anywhere to buy the correct parts... Disclaimer: I've never owned one. Some friends and acquaintances bought them. The China scooters got wildly popular in my area a number of years back, because a few of the local independent use-car lots began selling them right off the lots. The scooters were cheap and looked good, but the reliability sucked. Within ~3 years all three of the places selling them all stopped for various reasons, and the scooters disappeared from the roads within a couple years after. They're still cheap on the internet--but lots of user reviews say that the problems are still the same--poor reliability and no dealer/parts support. Meanwhile--the people I know who bought Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha/Suzuki scooters are still riding them around, 10+ years later. The China 50cc scooters cost $500, and the Japanese 50cc scooters cost ~$2500. If you buy a China 50cc scooter and you get one year of moderate use out of it, you probably got your money's worth. ,,,,,,,,,, So with this information added to the comparison--I would dare say that a $500 e-bike may be a better deal for most people (for short-range use) than a $500 50cc China scooter. 1. The e-bike requires no license or insurance or fuel, and can be used on bicycle-only routes. 2. If (when) either breaks down, the e-bike is a lot easier for an average person to fix themselves. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2017 Vuelta Stage 20 | Michael[_10_] | Racing | 1 | September 9th 17 09:09 PM |
ignore Happy Birthday, August 14, 2017 | Davey Crockett[_13_] | Racing | 1 | August 14th 17 02:29 PM |
Happy Birthday, August 12, 2017 | Davey Crockett[_13_] | Racing | 0 | August 12th 17 04:23 PM |
UK CITY OF CULTURE 2017 | Judith[_4_] | UK | 4 | January 3rd 17 03:07 PM |
Hull to be UK City of Culture 2017 | Judith[_4_] | UK | 6 | November 20th 13 05:43 PM |