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program to compute gears, with table



 
 
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  #71  
Old September 12th 17, 04:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 3:23:59 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
Emanuel Berg wrote:
The spacing between the cogs grows narrower
with growing numbers of gears

Are the sprockets always the same width, only
spacing grows narrower?

and since they have pick-ups to assist
shifting you have to make the chains narrower
to keep them from hopping gears all the time.

Does it impact anything else in the cycling
experience/performance to have
a narrower chain?


11 speed chains don't last as long as 8 speed chains, if that's what you
mean. Performance wise there are too many differences between my 11 speed
and the last 8 speed that I had.


That gear computer was for an eight speed. With a compact cranks and a 12-28 you can see that most of the gears have 10% spread between gears. There is no reason to have closer gearing unless you're racing.

So all you end up with is a set-up for which you need to shift multiple times rather than once to obtain normal performance. And a lot higher cost and faster wear.

This is what the point is isn't it? WHY have components designed to help only the highest performance professional racers other than to pretend to have that sort of performance yourself?

Yesterday I rode on a 35 mile ride. On the way out into a headwind I averaged a little less than 14 mph. I had a cup of coffee while in the city square the worst band I ever heard was making awful noises. When I was in a band if we had played that badly on our first try in a rehearsal we would have quit.

On the way back the wind had reversed and I had a hard time maintaining 12 mph for most of the way. By the time I got home I was exhausted. Do you think that I could improve my performance with an 11 or 12 speed?

I know my limits and it isn't playing as if I was Chris Froome.


Something I've always wondered about is how in the world can I ride an
out and back course and have a head wind both ways :-(

I think that the reason many? most? bicycles are equipped with the
"latest thing" is that is what sells bicycles.

I have, more then once, seen a bloke that very obviously knows very
little about bicycles come into a shop to buy a bicycle - quite often
it seems with the idea that riding a bicycle will make him slim again
- and the Sales Girl will, after talking to the guy for a while,
recommend a bike that she thinks might suit him. Invariably this will
be a middle of the price range bike and about as invariably the guy
will start looking at something much further up the price range. "Hmmm
this one's got 9 speeds and that one has 10.... Oh and that one over
there has 11..." and this is in Bangkok where I seldom shift more than
once in a two hour ride :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

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  #72  
Old September 12th 17, 04:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default program to compute gears, with table

John B. wrote:

On one hand you are reciting what the
specifications are telling you and on the
other hand it is a bloke with years and years
of experience in the business is telling you.


Shozaburo Shimano founded Shimano in
February 1921 which amounts to a collective
experience of 96y 7m 11d, and not of the
business in general, but of manufacturing
bicycle parts. And they say 6/7/8 of their
own chain.

The other people/shops I've refered to who
also say this are probably just repeating what
Shimano says on the chain box.

And I think that's completely natural! I also
trust what manufacturers of an international
magnitude like Shimano put on their boxes.
First thing with new gear I always read on
the box.

So even tho I never tried it myself (a
6/7/8 chain on a 6 casette) I dare say yes,
I find this story a bit strange.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #73  
Old September 12th 17, 05:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default program to compute gears, with table

Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Many times he asks a question then disagrees
with what those experts like Andrew who know
the RIGHT answer tell him.


So let's hear it, why do Shimano put such
obvious disinformation on their product boxes?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #74  
Old September 12th 17, 05:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default program to compute gears, with table

John B. wrote:

That isn't true at all. I have definitely
improved the speed of a C program by using an
assembler language sub routines and even had
two C compilers that would compile the same
program into two different sizes that
performed the same "test" program at two
different speeds.


Obviously two different programs will be of
different sizes and run at different speeds.
With compilers to do optimization, and with
much increased hardware to make optimization
unnecessary to begin with, there is close to
zero gain re-writing C into assembler, and its
an undertaking that isn't proportional to that
gain. So it is rather done when there is a need
to manipulate hardware directly or in ways
which the high-level language isn't suited for.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #75  
Old September 12th 17, 07:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:00:13 AM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Many times he asks a question then disagrees
with what those experts like Andrew who know
the RIGHT answer tell him.


So let's hear it, why do Shimano put such
obvious disinformation on their product boxes?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


Yes, you're definitely trolling.

Cheers
  #76  
Old September 12th 17, 08:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:18:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 5:54 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:34:20 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Word Star, the first really good word
processor application was written in
assembler by a single programmer over
a period of about a month

Straight long ear!


Sometime in 1980 Epson wanted to license the software to run on their
PX-8 that used a built in LCD display. The application would have to
run from 48Kb of ROM.

They rehired the Programmer, John Barnaby, who had earlier left the
company, at a salary of $100 an hour (1980 dollars, today $297 ). The
project was completed in two weeks, whereupon Barnaby left the company
again.


Wow. If someone were paying me $300 per hour to do a job only I could
do, I'd probably take longer than two weeks to do it. ;-)


Well, in detail, the guy wrote the word processor application,
apparently working 7 days a week and 10 or more hours a day. When he
finished the project I guess he said something like "that's enough for
me" and quit. When the Epson project came along, as one article said,
they lured him back, and he finished the job in two weeks... if his
old work schedule applied that would have been, oh say $42,000 :-)

As an aside I worked a one year project where the client specified
that unless I was the Project Manager they wouldn't award the
contract.... makes it pretty pleasant when it comes to salary
negotiation time :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #77  
Old September 12th 17, 08:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:10:24 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 10:53:52 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:47:59 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

The guy who only stocks one model chain knows
a lot more than the guy who made it?

http://bike.shimano.com/content/saus...s/cn-hg40.html

Shifts for crap on a six speed system.
Six changers want classic chain with rivets
sticking out the side, especially the fronts.

Today I went to a bike repair shop (not the
general-purpose store previously mentioned that
"only stocks" the Shimano 1S and 6/7/8 chain
models), and I asked for a 1S chain.

The guy said he had two, one ordinary and
one SS. I asked if the chain really does rust
if you use the bike, and he confirmed it
didn't, so I got the "SC4/0 Steel Roller Chain"
which is 114L 1/2" x 1/8" Made in Taiwan.

I asked about casette chains for specific
numbers of sprockets and he said, without me
mentioning it, one model for 6/7/8, one for 9,
one for 10, and one for 11, with no mention
of 12.

So it would seem he is in agreement with the
Shimano CN-HG40 6/7/8 specification previously
under fire.

Of course, I never tried that on a 6, so this
is just what he said. The plot thickens...


I don't think so. On one hand you are reciting what the specifications
are telling you and on the other hand it is a bloke with years and
years of experience in the business is telling you.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Reading Berg's posts makes me think that a lot of times he's trolling. Many times he asks a question then disagrees with what those experts like Andrew who know the RIGHT answer tell him.

Cheers


But compared with some he is relatively harmless.

And serves the purpose of allowing others to exhibit their amazing
knowledge of a subject without long drawn out arguments :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #78  
Old September 12th 17, 08:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 06:00:09 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Many times he asks a question then disagrees
with what those experts like Andrew who know
the RIGHT answer tell him.


So let's hear it, why do Shimano put such
obvious disinformation on their product boxes?


Because, as Andrew told you, it will fit. On the other hand, as Andrew
told you, if a 6 speed it won't shift well.

I might add that I have used a 10 speed chain with a 9 speed cassette
and a 9 speed chain with a 10 speed cassette, and they worked to my
satisfaction although Shimano certainly do not state it will work on
the box.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #79  
Old September 12th 17, 08:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:52:39 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

On one hand you are reciting what the
specifications are telling you and on the
other hand it is a bloke with years and years
of experience in the business is telling you.


Shozaburo Shimano founded Shimano in
February 1921 which amounts to a collective
experience of 96y 7m 11d, and not of the
business in general, but of manufacturing
bicycle parts. And they say 6/7/8 of their
own chain.


Your data, while accurate, is frivolous as Shozaburo certainly wasn't
making multi speed bike parts in 1921.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #80  
Old September 12th 17, 09:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default program to compute gears, with table

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 06:06:56 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

That isn't true at all. I have definitely
improved the speed of a C program by using an
assembler language sub routines and even had
two C compilers that would compile the same
program into two different sizes that
performed the same "test" program at two
different speeds.


Obviously two different programs will be of
different sizes and run at different speeds.


But that wasn't what I said at all. As I said the same code compiled
on two different compiler resulted in both a different size compiled
application and, as well, a speed difference when running.

With compilers to do optimization, and with
much increased hardware to make optimization
unnecessary to begin with, there is close to
zero gain re-writing C into assembler, and its


Except when it does make a difference.

an undertaking that isn't proportional to that
gain. So it is rather done when there is a need
to manipulate hardware directly or in ways
which the high-level language isn't suited for.


I'm not sure that is correct in all cases although of course modern
computers run at speeds that make the slower software appear to be
satisfactory. But I did a search on the question "is modern software
written in assembler" and the first hit replied:

"Probably more than most people think, especially in the
microcontroller field. I write in assembler when it's appropriate,
which for the kind of work I do is most of the time


--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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