Chain Stretch

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance.. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold.

Lou

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 11:12:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold.


I rode 4Seasons on my winter fast bike and then changed to Pro4 Endurance because of cost. I still like the 4Seasons a lot, and the mild tread pattern is better than a straight slick in a lot of fall conditions (leaves, etc.) I'm watching for sales, which won't happen in the winter regrettably. I commute on Gatorskins which are pretty good. The supposed best tires from Schwalbe and others are horrendously expensive in the US. I'm still searching for a good, affordable winter tire for commuting.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:57:24 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/17/2017 5:43 PM, wrote:


Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

Speaking of crud buildup: Back when we were talking about waxing
chains, I took a photo or two of my bikes. Here's a link to our tandem
hanging in the basement. The bike has not been cleaned in a year. The
chain hasn't been lubed since spring, maybe 600 miles now. Note the
lack of crud in the cogs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ACmzRRbMjWCUrHef2

I could always accuse you of a phony picture like you have me but I'll take your word for it. But that absolutely is NOT the way that my chain wax has behaved.

The way I've put it on in the past is to put the wax can into a pot of water and heated the water to melt the wax. In the meantime I put the chain in the oven and heated it enough so that when I dip it through the wax the wax runs off without leaving large amounts of residue. But it still leaves some on the inside of the chain plates. And this is deposited on the cassettes.. If you use the wax + oil the residue is really black and very difficult to remove.

But the "dry lubes" which are mostly wax do the same thing.

So now I use the "dry lubes" that are silicon in an evaporating carrier. After application I leave the bike overnight before using it. The dry lube is now completely dry and tends not to leave deposits anywhere except on the outside of the chain plates so I have to rub it off with a terry towel that I got a container of at Warehouse Tool for a song. They also have those red towels that we always used to use as grease rags but they are so thin that the grease goes through them and onto your hands.

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 8:54:31 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:18:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 6:02:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance.. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.

Once you've settled on a chain/cassette/tire brand and model, it's just a fixed cost, and it really doesn't matter how long it lasted. I've settled on my chains -- KMC comes with a quick link, it is reasonably priced and last longer than SRAM. I don't like the pins on Shimano chains and don't want to pay for a separate quick-link. I buy Shimano cassettes -- 105 level or above, and my tires vary somewhat, but fast tires are close-out Pro4 Service Courses. I bought four today for $25 (after discount for picking up in store) a pop at Western Bikeworks. Two will go to my son for Christmas. It's a first-class fast road tire for a song.

Gatorskins are the go-to commuter bike tire, but they're over-priced and rarely go on a good sale, so I try sale table tires. The more durable, the more they ride like wagon wheels. I still have a Bontrager front tire that I got off a sale table more than three years ago. It just won't die -- and I want it to die.

OT, but Portland had the worst air in the US yesterday because of all the forest fires. It was a little better today, and I went on a ride with some friends -- and a few hours ago, rain rolled in. It's been dry for months. This will be great for the forest fires, the air and lawns -- but it signals the beginning of many months of riding on wet pavement and my annual quest for really grippy tires with good rolling resistance. Something in the 32mm range, so if anyone has a suggestion, let me know.

Shimano's chains now come with quick links.

I see that Shimano offers one, but I don't think it is being shipped with the chains. https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...11-speed-chain It looks like a $15 add-on (for two). https://www.coloradocyclist..com/shi...-11-quick-link Does anyone know if the new 11sp Shimano chains are shipping with quick links?


I used a KMC quick link with Shimano chains in the past on bikes that came with Shimano chains OE, so using a quick link has always been an option, but I just didn't like paying the extra charge when you can get a KMC chain (who makes chains for Shimano) with the link included.

I didn't buy one but a picture showed the quick link and not the chain pins..

On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold.


I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect
and Strava. But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my
maintenance. It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to
get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task.

It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the
maintenance is done.

On 9/18/2017 4:14 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:57:24 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of crud buildup: Back when we were talking about waxing
chains, I took a photo or two of my bikes. Here's a link to our tandem
hanging in the basement. The bike has not been cleaned in a year. The
chain hasn't been lubed since spring, maybe 600 miles now. Note the
lack of crud in the cogs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ACmzRRbMjWCUrHef2

I could always accuse you of a phony picture like you have me but I'll take your word for it. But that absolutely is NOT the way that my chain wax has behaved.

I have more photos, if you're interested. When we were discussing this,
I snapped several with my phone, but I never took the time to link to them.

Here are the rear cogs on my touring bike. (Note, five cogs - wow!)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zhJArStigQWDR99l2

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote:
On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would
assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire
purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep
track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last
year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC
Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much
faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the
things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain
off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the
cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a
gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since
this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up
pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I
don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed
cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very
well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick
and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the
rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I
seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the
set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the
staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of
the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll
and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get
any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them
peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance.
I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the
Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4
Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in
performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself
for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That
was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso
Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it.
The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio
uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the
Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt
much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster
though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little
lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at
the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins
to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes
and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of
reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that
allowed me to keep track of household expenses.Â* It produced an
expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the
mortgage.Â* Goddamn!Â* Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage.Â* I
better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes.Â* Wow, look how much I'm replacing
those chains.Â* I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are
automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them
to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to
another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I
want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage
on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I
can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires,
chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires
or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the
are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because
they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark
and cold.


I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect
and Strava.Â* But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my
maintenance.Â* It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to
get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task.

It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the
maintenance is done.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:56:38 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote:
On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would
assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire
purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep
track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last
year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC
Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much
faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the
things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain
off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the
cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a
gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since
this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up
pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I
don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed
cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very
well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick
and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the
rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I
seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the
set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the
staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of
the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll
and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get
any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them
peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance.
I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the
Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4
Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in
performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself
for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That
was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso
Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it.
The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio
uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the
Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt
much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster
though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little
lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at
the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins
to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes
and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of
reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that
allowed me to keep track of household expenses.Â* It produced an
expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the
mortgage.Â* Goddamn!Â* Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage.Â* I
better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes.Â* Wow, look how much I'm replacing
those chains.Â* I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are
automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them
to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to
another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I
want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage
on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I
can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires,
chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires
or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the
are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because
they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark
and cold.


I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect
and Strava.Â* But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my
maintenance.Â* It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to
get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task.

It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the
maintenance is done.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I sense a negative undertone. Help with what? Does it need to help with anything? Did you never kept a log or travel diary or took pictures? For me to relive my rides in any way.

Lou

On 9/18/2017 3:56 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote:
On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2,
jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S
but would assume that it is slightly less that the
Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard
life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that
I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so
often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you
might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed
for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube
them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more
carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off.
This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on
the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of
it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay
Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike
with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That
probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't
know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since
10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably
light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do
not roll very well and they aren't very good in
corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little
better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber
started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good
all around. I seem to remember in the past that they
got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago
didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost
compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the
competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized
dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked
them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY
noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But
apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of
the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin
Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and
will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm
rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance
because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the
difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata
OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in
my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most
perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso
Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello
will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest
amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but
the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and
the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow
actually felt much better than anything else but both
of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride
nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but
their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at
the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front
wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops
pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied
with my bikes and can keep track of component life.

Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it
kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken
programs that allowed me to keep track of household
expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge
slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn!Â
Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better
stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much
I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.


Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and
these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect
account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a
week I input my rides from my garmin to another program
(Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I
want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so
the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a
chain I make a note which I can search for.
It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice
for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I
refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains
which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In
winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because
they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying
in the dark and cold.


I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the
Garmin/Garmin Connect and Strava. But I also have an app
on my phone that tracks my maintenance. It's called
Feedback and it links to my Strava account to get my
mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a
task.

It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a
button when the maintenance is done.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data?
How does it help?


There are guys who keep meticulous maintenance records for
cars, diet, home repairs etc too. Nothing wrong with that.

We have a couple of customers who can tell us how many miles
are on this chain, this tire, when brake pads or a gear wire
were changed or the last Ergo rebuild, all for multiple
bikes. One of our later-famous employees wrote the date on
the base tape of a new tubular (ancient analog system).
If you care, it's easy to track. If you don't no one will
think less of you.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 19/09/17 06:14, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:57:24 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 9/17/2017 5:43 PM, wrote:


Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the
KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so
much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of
the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the
chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on
the cassette.

Speaking of crud buildup: Back when we were talking about waxing
chains, I took a photo or two of my bikes. Here's a link to our
tandem hanging in the basement. The bike has not been cleaned in a
year. The chain hasn't been lubed since spring, maybe 600 miles
now. Note the lack of crud in the cogs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ACmzRRbMjWCUrHef2

I could always accuse you of a phony picture like you have me but
I'll take your word for it. But that absolutely is NOT the way that
my chain wax has behaved.

The way I've put it on in the past is to put the wax can into a pot
of water and heated the water to melt the wax. In the meantime I put
the chain in the oven and heated it enough so that when I dip it
through the wax the wax runs off without leaving large amounts of
residue. But it still leaves some on the inside of the chain plates.
And this is deposited on the cassettes. If you use the wax + oil the
residue is really black and very difficult to remove.


I use a wax/oil mix, and I don't find the residue difficult to remove at
all.

I take the chain off, put it in the pot with the solid wax and heat the
whole lot on a gas BBQ burner until the wax is completely liquified at
least. I then remove the chain carefully, and let the excess wax
mixture drip off before wiping any more excess off with a rag and
letting it cool enough I can handle it before putting it in storage.

While it is "cooking" and cooling I might rub off any build up of crud
from the jockey wheels and such and fit the other chain. I alternate 2
chains on one cassette.

--
JS