Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)

On 9/9/2019 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 20:43:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/9/2019 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.
--
cheers,

John B.


I hate those. They sneak up on a rider while the e-vehicle
pilot is texting in my lane.

Cheer up. Self driven autos are the next innovation. Singapore is
already using self driven busses on some routes.

"But! I wasn't driving, I was texting. The car was driving."

https://nypost.com/2019/09/09/tesla-...-going-60-mph/


--
- Frank Krygowski

snip

The idea of mandated mirrors is like mandatory helmets, hi vis and DRLs.

The effective solution is to eliminate the danger.

The rear ended fatalities usually occur on high speed rural roads.

Get your DoT to build separated cycling "roads" parallel to high speed
busy roads.

On quiet rural roads, make car drivers the guests and reduce the speed
limit.

--
JS
Amen to reducing the danger, JS.

I would be happy if just the residential & business speed limit (25mph around here) would be enforced.

If I try to obey the limit, I can feel the road rage building behind me, so I'll usually compromise and do 28-30mph--but it's so nice when I don't have the madding crowd pushing behind.

I get more slack when I'm in my trusty Morris Minor. I assume they feel sorry for me.

Back to thread...I am a mirror guy, and now that I'm used to it (a "Take-a-look" brand since I'm a glasses wearer), can't live without it. I'm also free to turn my head for emphasis, as another poster said, it does seem to make a difference.
When I'm on the recumbent...gotta have that mirror, too hard to twist around and can't stand up.

I saw some tourists w/ "pool noodles" affixed 90 degrees from their racks so as to mark the 3-foot passing distance. I bet that'd workd well for 95% of the drives out there but there is that contingent who would drop into 'video game' mode and try to clip that noodle on purpose.
So that's stopping me from trying it for now....but I just might and report back here w/ what I find.

I wonder if there's a market for a "Google Glass" type of thing w/ a back-facing camera displayed on a forward screen full time. Hmm.

pH in Aptos

"Mark J." writes:

On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or
truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm
doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have
to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may
also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days
forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and
a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes
all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close
passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether
you're looking at them through a mirror or not.

There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the
subconscious level.

My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few
days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have
been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's
going on back there.

Agreed. Every few months I forget my mirror, and within a few minutes I
get that feling that something is just not right, so I turn right around
and get it. Sometimes walking down the street I try turning my head a
bit and looking in the corner where the mirror ought to be.

Every time I see one on someone else, though, I can't help but notice
how dorky it looks.

Pro-tip: I put some reflective tape on the back, for that one-eyed cat
look at night. Doesn't make it look any more, or less, dorky.

AMuzi writes:

On 9/9/2019 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have
done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time,
and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the
object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its
threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently
(especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind)
without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to
distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view
mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to
take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry
weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the
rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic
assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another
fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.


Smooth asphalt? I've heard that, in theory, it could be used as street
pavement, just not in the real world.

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/98698/fi...=1392910181000

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...ize=1200%2C630

It's an ideal, like the frictionless surface, or the spherical cow.

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:49:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes:

On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or
truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm
doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have
to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may
also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days
forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and
a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes
all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close
passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether
you're looking at them through a mirror or not.

There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the
subconscious level.

My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few
days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have
been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's
going on back there.

Agreed. Every few months I forget my mirror, and within a few minutes I
get that feling that something is just not right, so I turn right around
and get it. Sometimes walking down the street I try turning my head a
bit and looking in the corner where the mirror ought to be.

Every time I see one on someone else, though, I can't help but notice
how dorky it looks.

Pro-tip: I put some reflective tape on the back, for that one-eyed cat
look at night. Doesn't make it look any more, or less, dorky.

I have been forgetting my mirror for the last, well forever. I just turn my head and look. Do you wear a mirror walking? In the shower? Gardening? Going to a dance party? Those are more dangerous than riding, so why no mirror?

As for the pro-tip, I have reflective tape all up the back of my fender and stays for that "road construction" look.


-- Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:55:55 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 20:43:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/9/2019 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.
--
cheers,

John B.


I hate those. They sneak up on a rider while the e-vehicle
pilot is texting in my lane.

Cheer up. Self driven autos are the next innovation. Singapore is
already using self driven busses on some routes.

"But! I wasn't driving, I was texting. The car was driving."

https://nypost.com/2019/09/09/tesla-...-going-60-mph/

What is the sense of having it if you don't use it :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:54:22 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

AMuzi writes:

On 9/9/2019 8:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have
done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time,
and again, a mirror would do nothing.

What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the
object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its
threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently
(especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind)
without much more than a flick of an eyeball.
Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to
distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view
mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to
take evasive action.

Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise
by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been
so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my
mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there.

Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by
one the other day. No noise at all.

Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry
weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the
rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic
assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another
fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a
smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's
fingertips together)
--
cheers,

John B.


Smooth asphalt? I've heard that, in theory, it could be used as street
pavement, just not in the real world.

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/98698/fi...=1392910181000

As I previous wrote. You gotta buy a pothole bike to go with the road
bike, the gravel bile, the touring bike, the racing bike, etc.

To be well equipped is to be prepared.

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...ize=1200%2C630

It's an ideal, like the frictionless surface, or the spherical cow.
--
cheers,

John B.

jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:49:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes:

On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or
truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm
doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have
to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may
also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days
forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and
a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes
all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close
passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether
you're looking at them through a mirror or not.

There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the
subconscious level.

My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few
days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have
been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's
going on back there.

Agreed. Every few months I forget my mirror, and within a few minutes I
get that feling that something is just not right, so I turn right around
and get it. Sometimes walking down the street I try turning my head a
bit and looking in the corner where the mirror ought to be.

Every time I see one on someone else, though, I can't help but notice
how dorky it looks.

Pro-tip: I put some reflective tape on the back, for that one-eyed cat
look at night. Doesn't make it look any more, or less, dorky.

I have been forgetting my mirror for the last, well forever. I just
turn my head and look. Do you wear a mirror walking? In the shower?
Gardening? Going to a dance party? Those are more dangerous than
riding, so why no mirror?

I look back in the mirror much more often than I would if I had to turn
my head, although I do that too. I usually just pull out a compact and
pretend to powder my nose when walking, and my shower is, naturally,
fully mirrored. Never saw the need for a gardening mirror, and it's
been ages since I was invited to a dance party.

As for the pro-tip, I have reflective tape all up the back of my
fender and stays for that "road construction" look.

I got some reflective pin stripe tape for the fenders, it looks almost
presentable.

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:29:24 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:49:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes:

On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or
truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm
doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have
to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may
also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days
forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and
a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes
all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close
passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether
you're looking at them through a mirror or not.

There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the
subconscious level.

My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few
days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have
been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's
going on back there.

Agreed. Every few months I forget my mirror, and within a few minutes I
get that feling that something is just not right, so I turn right around
and get it. Sometimes walking down the street I try turning my head a
bit and looking in the corner where the mirror ought to be.

Every time I see one on someone else, though, I can't help but notice
how dorky it looks.

Pro-tip: I put some reflective tape on the back, for that one-eyed cat
look at night. Doesn't make it look any more, or less, dorky.

I have been forgetting my mirror for the last, well forever. I just
turn my head and look. Do you wear a mirror walking? In the shower?
Gardening? Going to a dance party? Those are more dangerous than
riding, so why no mirror?

I look back in the mirror much more often than I would if I had to turn
my head, although I do that too. I usually just pull out a compact and
pretend to powder my nose when walking, and my shower is, naturally,
fully mirrored. Never saw the need for a gardening mirror, and it's
been ages since I was invited to a dance party.

As for the pro-tip, I have reflective tape all up the back of my
fender and stays for that "road construction" look.

I got some reflective pin stripe tape for the fenders, it looks almost
presentable.

Wise move staying away from the dance parties. They're super dangerous. https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/ I'm working with a Chinese affiliate to manufacture a dance party helmet. https://media.boingboing.net/wp-cont...nergy-dome.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On 9/10/2019 9:25 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:29:24 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:49:40 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes:

On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or
truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm
doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have
to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may
also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days
forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and
a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes
all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close
passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether
you're looking at them through a mirror or not.

There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the
subconscious level.

My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few
days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have
been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's
going on back there.

Agreed. Every few months I forget my mirror, and within a few minutes I
get that feling that something is just not right, so I turn right around
and get it. Sometimes walking down the street I try turning my head a
bit and looking in the corner where the mirror ought to be.

Every time I see one on someone else, though, I can't help but notice
how dorky it looks.

Pro-tip: I put some reflective tape on the back, for that one-eyed cat
look at night. Doesn't make it look any more, or less, dorky.

I have been forgetting my mirror for the last, well forever. I just
turn my head and look. Do you wear a mirror walking? In the shower?
Gardening? Going to a dance party? Those are more dangerous than
riding, so why no mirror?

I look back in the mirror much more often than I would if I had to turn
my head, although I do that too. I usually just pull out a compact and
pretend to powder my nose when walking, and my shower is, naturally,
fully mirrored. Never saw the need for a gardening mirror, and it's
been ages since I was invited to a dance party.

As for the pro-tip, I have reflective tape all up the back of my
fender and stays for that "road construction" look.

I got some reflective pin stripe tape for the fenders, it looks almost
presentable.

Wise move staying away from the dance parties. They're super dangerous. https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/

So, yet another source claiming bicycling is not super-dangerous. In
this case, bicycling is safer than attending dance parties.

That's going to make some or our contributors mad.


--
- Frank Krygowski